COSMOFACTORY

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Deanna: [00:00:00] this episode is about hair care and hair treatment, but not the usual sort. It's about developing hair products that can protect against UV and pollution damage. It's about choosing raw materials. It's about working in house and with specialized labs to test and validate these new, novel hair care benefits.
And it's about the origin of the ideas that become hair care innovations. Today, my guests on the CosmoFactory podcast are [00:01:00] Claudia Silva, R& D director at Colep, and Paola Meroni, that same company's head of marketing. Welcome to you both.
Paola: Thank you for having us here, Deanna. It's a pleasure.
Claudia: Very happy to be here.
Deanna: Yes, I'm glad to speak with you both. Thank you so much. Paola, let's start at the beginning, if you don't mind. Uh, will you tell us a bit about where the idea to create UV and pollution protection hair products comes from?
Paola: But at Colep, we, as a marketing team, we really work hand in hand with R& D. At the beginning of everything, there is a really mapping the market and understanding Uh, what are the market needs and try to understand where the market is going, especially, especially, for example, for the hair care and the pollution of care.
We are seeing the market growing, um, prove them by number. We are seeing how the growing, uh, [00:02:00] It's, uh, led to a compan under grow, um, compound annual grow of 10% for the he per healthcare market, and especially in the he pollution market around the 7% and the trigger are really the hand consumer and the consumer that are increasing, having a, a concern on her wellbeing and their health.
And how, uh, there is a recognizable factor that environmental is impacting their well being and health, especially on the hair care, urban aggressor, some damage, pollution, mineral from water supply. Or there are combining in affecting a scalp and their care. So that's a, is a, the idea and the trigger that help us to, uh, drive our innovation in the healthcare.
So there is also a big potential for brands in this, uh, area in this, um,
Deanna: Yeah. [00:03:00] Yeah, no, certainly. That makes very good sense. You know, I'm just thinking from my work, there are so many, you know, market trends or consumer, um, demands, if you will, to pay attention to in our industry. Can you say a little bit more about what might help you decide to focus on something like UV and pollution rather than maybe, you know, longevity and hair care or neurocosmetics for scalp care, other things we see going on.
You
Paola: But we are seeing, for example, when we start every year, we create what are our macro trends. And one of our macro trends was called powering the persona. So consumers are really demanding, and they are demanding science backed cosmetics. With the fact that the beauty bar is rising, consumers are really looking into beauty to find a solution for Some very specific and vertical needs and the consequentially beauty as they allow me to say duty to [00:04:00] provide this kind of solution.
Also, we are looking here, uh, to hyper targeted solution to really address the needs and that's the, uh, Rational that he is behind. So that's the reason why we are looking into hard water. So look, I mean, to tackling the harder waters concern as well as the anti pollution and some damage and how these are factor are really, um, have an impact on the scalp and then on the hair.
How can create on scalp dryness? Or dandruff or in some really more serious case, even, uh, treating some eczema issue or as well, like on the length of the hair, how these, it's really, um, thinning the hair, uh, create some breakage, hair loss, and even the aging of the hair.
Deanna: know, that's, that's super cool. I love how, how carefully you're thinking about this category. That's, that's very interesting. And you mentioned, you know, that you do work closely with [00:05:00] R and D. I'm wondering at the start of a project like this, um, You know, when, when you're decided to focus on UV and pollution in particular, what sort of guidelines do you hand off to Claudia and her team?
How do you, how do you set the, the parameters for something like this?
Paola: But in our, what our brief is really quite detailed and, uh, we. Creating the together with the Claudia for sure. There is a part of that is dedicated to the sense of reality because this is a must have nowadays for the consumer because they need to really engage in a pleasant way to the product itself and then there is a proper aiming to final claim.
protection to X percentage of, uh, for example, or a temperature, uh, some damage. Um, how to we can really, uh, claim their removal of their hard water during the [00:06:00] washer. So I really very specific a claim that we analyze with the Claudia Day Feasibility do ability in the development phase. Claudia has an amazing and then I will hand it over to her, but she has an amazing lab with inside the equipment that are really dedicated to measuring during the development phase.
So we are lucky enough to constantly having this kind of touch base during the develop is not more is not only about texture. It's not only about, uh, claim a nice active ingredient. It's really about the substantiation. And this is our way to approach innovation.
Deanna: Yeah, yeah, no, that's fantastic. So, so yeah, let's, let's do, um, get into it. Claudia, how do you start your part of the project?
Claudia: So, uh, as always, we all, we always need to understand very well, uh, in this case, the hair biology. So we really are [00:07:00] developing products that can make a difference. We don't want to have products just because we have nice claims and there is the trend in the market. We want very effective products that are also sustainable.
So first we need to start to What is the, what the problem that we want to solve in this case? What is the kind of damage that all these external factors can induce in the hair and in how many different ways we can tackle them? Because only with an holistic approach, you can really make a difference.
There is a particularity of hair because if you, um, that makes it even more, um, Urgent to prevent damage because the, the air strands itself, they cannot regenerate. They are not living cells that can regenerate like the others. Additionally, in skin, you have a renewal of less than one, one month in hair.
You can have the same fiber for three, four years. So it's really important that you tackle, [00:08:00] you start by preventing, and also you can have some raw materials to recover and to help. To reduce the already existent damage and we normally work in a, um, like in collections. So we don't develop only one product.
So normally there is a combination of products that all together, uh, are stronger to reach the benefits that we are aiming to. For example, in anti pollution, we need to start by the shampoo. Okay? Because if you have Uh, particles adhering to the surface of your scalp or of your hair. You need to make sure that you are able to remove them while you clean your hair so they are not there to damage.
Of course, then, you also want to have, uh, actives to, uh, prevent the adherence of these anti pollution particles or dust, because in this case, it's [00:09:00] less likely that they are there, um, causing the effects of pollution. That, uh, the bad effects, the, uh, carbonation of proteins, oxidation of lipids that then produce the, the breath look, the lose of strength in the hair, the lose of shine.
Then you lo you move to con a good condition because then you need to have very good emollient to prevent or to repair part of the, of the shine. And also, uh, the hair becomes more, um. With a higher attrition when they are, it's damaged. So to recover that part, and then of course, leaving products that stay enough time on the air strand and on the hair scalp to prevent the actions of the radicals that are generating combination of the pollution with UV filter.
So it's always, we always try. To have [00:10:00] all these products combined together. So you try to tackle sees cleaning until preventing until recovering from damage. So in the end, you really see a benefit. Otherwise, only with the one product. Sometimes we, it's very often we don't achieve the efficacy that we want.
So that's why we work by collections and all of them, they have a very specific aim and this is the, the way we, we work.
Deanna: Excellent. Yes, this collections approach makes very good sense. Can you say more about, uh, how you choose raw materials? Are you looking at the library of materials you have in house, or do you start exploring other options for a project like this? I mean, I'm just thinking, like, these are very new benefits for the marketplace.
Do you need, do you need new raw materials?
Claudia: Yeah, normally we always need, if we, if we are looking to um, new claims, normally what we do is we work closely with the Some of the most innovative suppliers that we [00:11:00] have in the fields, and we like to work with suppliers that not only tells us this is the ingredient that you can use to claim anti pollution, but they explain what is the mechanism of action because I can have a raw material with an anti pollution claim that, as I referred, is used to make sure that we clean it.
All the particle matters that are in your hair and scalp, and this is appropriate for a shampoo, but it's not so appropriate for a living product. Because if you don't go deeper, if you don't understand their biology, and if you don't understand the mechanism of action, how can you select properly the raw material that you need?
You need to use it in what in each one of these products of the of the collection. Um, and we like, of course, always to look into the scientific data that they provide is explaining the mechanism of action, the level of efficacy, because sometimes [00:12:00] when we look to the data. Uh, they don't look that effective as they are promoted.
And this is the starting point also for what we call the phase of the paper formula, that is when we start to build the concept of the product. So we start looking like our recipe. Okay, so we want to put an ingredient or a raw material that avoids adherence and cleanses here in this hair shampoo, but we also want to use mild surfactants because the hair may be already damaged and we don't want to damage the hair.
To, uh, worsen that condition, then in a conditioner. So this isn't the pollution. So the sometimes we also use our little raw materials that we use all the time, because if you really need and you want a good conditioner, uh, and we already have a very good in house that is sustainable. We may use already other raw materials that we are very [00:13:00] familiar.
But this is the way we start building the collection altogether. Okay. With the, with the team, with the marketing. Sometimes we, uh, of course of over the development process, we exchange ideas, um, also because it's important. We want to, to be able to have our products in old people homes, how to communicate the benefits because otherwise, uh, the final consumer will not be able to understand the benefit of buying these products.
So, so that's why. Paula was saying this is a very interactive process until we have the product developed with the safety demonstrated, the claim substantiation done, stability proven, and then we are able to offer them to our customers.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. And, and Apollo mentioned the importance of validation, um, you know, throughout the development process and, and certainly at the end. Um, Claudia, I'm [00:14:00] helping, hoping we can think a little bit about testing. Um, in skincare, we know there is standardized testing for UV protection or sun care products, but how are you testing for sun care and pollution benefits in hair care?
What are you, what are you looking at?
Claudia: So there are different types of tests. Some tests that you normally use, can also be used to evaluate damage in hair, like combing how easy it is to comb or shine. But normally, when you already see this on hair, the damage is already very, very high. Okay, so, uh, and we normally want to see the damage and the prevention early on.
So we really evaluate if our raw materials, our products, uh, will be able to prevent or help to reduce the damage of pollution or UV filters. And in this case, we need more sophisticated equipment. So we, uh, we can use a [00:15:00] microscope to see how damaged is the hair, or If we have particle matters appear there, or we can use a differential scanning calorimetry that is a thermal technique to evaluate, uh, the, how damaged are the proteins, uh, or not.
Uh, or you can do analysis of the lipid content of the hair strands to evaluate if also in an earlier stage, um, the damage. induced or how healthy is the hair, but it's quite difficult because when you don't have standardized methods, it's difficult to compare the benchmarks and the results that you are seeing.
Even in the raw materials, when we have raw materials and we have this nice state of the test proving the efficacy, all of them use different tests. it's really important that in this case, we really need to test [00:16:00] the final product, uh, in a, in a certified lab to make sure that in the final product, we have a benefit that the final consumer will perceive, because if they don't perceive it, And if it takes a long time for them to perceive, they will not use it because they want products with a faster action.
So that's why the testing is important. And, uh, um, and in this case, I think something that needs to be done is, uh, is the development of, uh, of a test standardized test. So everyone is working using the same validated test that everyone agrees is showing. relevant results, because we may test in many different ways, but the test must be predictive of what will happen in reality.
Otherwise, it will not help you. It will not help you to get what you want. That [00:17:00] is a very effective product in the market.
Deanna: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I'm, I'm curious, are you, uh, go ahead, Paola. Mm hmm.
Paola: Now, we work also in collaboration with external partner in proper creating protocols to support then the external test substantiation. So it's, uh, we're doing a study internally, but then we collaborate also externally in developing proper protocol ad hoc on our needs.
Deanna: Mm hmm. No, this makes sense. And, and I was going to ask, you know, um, are you seeing, Claudia, maybe some of the ingredient suppliers have some sort of consistency with testing, or is there testing that you've performed on, on your products that makes you think, oh, this would be good, you know, when, once we standardize a test for hair care, is there anything you would sort of recommend at this point in terms of testing?
Mm hmm.
Claudia: I think this, this has everything to do with the selection of the suppliers that you use. Of course, we have several because [00:18:00] we work across categories. So we need a big, a big variety of raw materials to be able to create every single week, completely new products, new textures, but, uh, only the best ones that we trust and we know that they have their own labs Very often they have their own labs.
They test them. We visit their labs. They visit us. They support us. So this is the way we like to work with suppliers. And this is the way we are working with the ones that we work more because it's, uh, Also building, um, a relationship based on trust and, uh, um, also recognizing the scientific know how of the other part.
And we are working with the very good ones. So I, all the data they provide us, it's reliable for sure. And we trust that it was done in a good lab by the best scientists. So, uh, and this is very important.
Deanna: No, of course. It's always very important to be working with trusted [00:19:00] partners. That, that sounds, that sounds right Claudia, you mentioned earlier, um, you know, it's quite obvious that a consumer's hair will be exposed to multiple stressors, right? Sun, pollution, maybe heat styling, something else. Um, can you say just a little bit more about how you account for that in the development of new products?
Claudia: it's a very interesting question, but it's quite complicated in the sense that it depends a lot where people live and their lifestyle. Because if you live in a city, you will be exposed to certain types of contaminants.
Uh, that you are, you are not so exposed when you are in the countryside, but maybe in the countryside you spend my more time outside under the UV lights than on, on a city with the lifestyle of a city. On top of that, you need to count on the specific. properties of the hair that also influence how resistant it is to, um, [00:20:00] to this damage.
If you have blonde hair with the low melanin amount, you are much more, uh, prone to have damage because melanin also, like in the skin, helps to counterbalance and the bad effects of UV, UV radiation. Also, if you have, if you bleach your hair, also it is already very damaged, so much, it's much easier for the pollution to have the bad effect and enter their shaft and they have the oxidative effects and the carbonylation of proteins that they may have.
So, Is in here it's really important because there is not one measurement or one product that fits all that the person that is by a some level of education and together with a good communication in the label of the product because if the the hair is already bleached with split [00:21:00] hands with low melanin maybe They need a higher amount of nutrients to recover the hair, then so much antioxidants to prevent the damage.
Deanna: Yeah.
Claudia: the marketing has a very important role, the marketing, uh, our marketing that speaks directly with, uh, with our, with our customers, because we are in a business to business model, what they need to communicate and the real benefits uh, so in education of the final consumer is also very important for them to be able to select the ones that better fits their needs. Of course.
Deanna: Yeah. No, thank you for that. can you comment on silicones? I know they've been a key ingredient in hair care. Um, are you working with these? Did you include them in any of the new formulations? Do you have any quick comments for us?
Claudia: Um, so we, as a company, we try to reduce as much as we can the use of silicones. It's a very controversial raw material. [00:22:00] Um, they are not all the same. So if one thing is if you are discussing silicones that are not soluble. And when apply. on the hair strands. It's very difficult to remove them. You need to use really harsh, um, shampoos and then they build up so they weigh down on your hair.
They, they, uh, prevent the entrance of other nutrients. So the hair with time becomes very dry and brittle. But on the other hand, now you have other versions that are soluble, so they are, they don't build up, uh, or less, and they are much easier to remove. So, depends a lot, uh, um, exactly what is, uh, your, what kind of silicones you select and for each claims.
For example, they are amazing, uh, Antifreeze products. Okay, but ideally [00:23:00] for texturized hair like mine, they give me an immediate amazed look. Antifreeze is very well defined. Over time, yes, I understand I need to wash my hair more times and then this will cause the dryness of the hair. But, uh, when there is a very severe damage and it's good to have this, um, layer on top of your hair because you don't have, uh, your cuticle, uh, in the best condition in some, in some situations you can use the soluble one.
So it's always a balance. It's always a balance of cost benefit like in all raw materials. If the benefits it's bringing to solve a problem are higher than some of the minor disadvantages that all raw materials may have.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you for that. And, um, it's helpful to hear your perspective. As you said, there's a lot of conversation [00:24:00] around silicones. Um, before we finish here, I'm just curious, um, if you'll be developing more hair care products with UV and pollution benefits, or are you moving on now to the next trend?
And if you are, will you tell us what it is?
Paola: Um, it's a part of our next roadmap. Uh, and, uh, we are, uh, um, I don't wanna spoil too much, but, uh, definitely it's, uh, a constant topic for us, uh, for sure. Um, we are developing a product and of course with the research and science behind. But especially, uh, that are, uh, uh, let me say promoted, uh, more, uh, longer term, uh, benefit, uh, and, uh, targeting, uh, individual higher type.
So that's, uh, is, , the first step that we did, uh, uh, was, uh, let me say a more, um,
but a more, wider collection. And then it's the time now to go [00:25:00] down the hair type, hairstyle, and consumer routine. So for us, hair plus benefit, it's always the combination. And especially on the part of pollution and some damage. Because consequentially, there is also, benefit on keeping their hair color, avoid their color fading, and the healthiness of the hair, it's a constant.
It
Deanna: Yes. Yes. No, that, that makes good sense. Thank you for sharing that. Well, Claudia, Paula, you're both so knowledgeable. This was very fun. I thank you for joining me today on the Cosmo factory podcast.
Paola: was a pleasure to be here, really.
Claudia: So let's hope that we will meet again soon.
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