COSMOFACTORY

This transcript is automatically created and manually edited.
Deanna: [00:00:00] This episode is about regenerative skincare and ethical sourcing. It's about building a brand around a novel ingredient technology about the importance of supply chain partnerships. And much more. Joining me today on the Cosmofactory podcast is Alec Batis, CEO and co founder of Sweet Chemistry Skincare.
Deanna: Welcome.
Alec: Hi, Deanna, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. It's really great to be able to talk to you and find out more about the industry and thank you for giving me a chance to talk [00:01:00] about, you know, sweet chemistry.
Deanna: Of course. No, we're very glad that you could be here. Um, in our industry today, I'm, I think, I think I would say that we're hearing about two types of regenerative beauty. There are skin care technologies that promise to help generate fully vital skin cells and skin tissue by basically stimulating the natural growth and remodeling mechanisms of our skin.
Deanna: And then there are also regenerative agriculture or aquaculture practices being used to source cosmetic and personal care ingredients. As I understand it, Sweet Chemistry is a brand that can talk about both. But Alec, I'm hoping that our conversation will focus more on skin care than on agriculture.
Deanna: I'm hoping to start off here. You can just tell me what regenerative skin care means at Sweet Chemistry.
Alec: so you would think that regenerative skin care would just be about the ingredient that we're about to talk about biotechnology, because usually. That's what that word is referred to. And especially in this, like, desire to be science backed, quote, [00:02:00] unquote, um, that's the sort of direction people talk about.
Alec: But for sweet chemistry, it's, it's a little bit more than that. Um, sweet chemistry, obviously, the word chemistry is all about the science of things. Um, and, and that, that has a lot to do with the brand, but then there's also the part about sweet chemistry. That's about the connection between human beings.
Alec: So some of us that have been in the industry a long time, we're just, you know, wanting to sort of explore past the physical when it comes to beauty, because we've just done the physical part so long. And some of us feel a little bit guilty about focusing on that much. Um, so when we think regenerative, we think, um, we kind of keep to these North stars, so to speak, or some people call them pillars, but I prefer North stars.
Alec: And there's three things. One is innovation. Um, innovation, because I don't know, it's just so interesting
Deanna: Right. Right.
Alec: It keeps the world go around, makes [00:03:00] the world go around and makes the world better. It inspires people. Um, and, um, that is the number 1 sort of, you know, North star for us.
Alec: Um, so when it comes to innovation, it's all about, um, you know, what is what are that? What is that next technology? That's going to take taking care of the skin to the next level, right? What's going to expand that? And then there's integrity. And that is our 2nd, sort of North Star and, you know, regenerative, um, this concept of regenerative in terms of integrity is the formulation integrity.
Alec: So, you know, as, you know, a long time ago, I was a chemist. For, um, some of the majors and, um, formulating in a more modern way with a little bit more integrity, that to me, creating formulas that have more substance, that to me is regenerative. Um, when you're using functional levels instead of [00:04:00] marketing levels, that to me is going to be more regenerative when you have, whether you believe chamomile extract is soothing or not. If you have 0. 01 versus 1, it's, uh, it's a world of different, right? The world of difference. So, to me, that's regenerative.
Alec: And then the last thing is, What we call healing. So, yes, the major plans are about to speak of in medicine. They're being, they're being used in many ways to heal, right? Whether it's healing lung tissue, whether it is, um, whether it's taking decellularized extracellular matrix and making, um, Uh, at in vitro assays for these disease, understanding of disease and also drug testing like all those things are incredible for mankind and the future of it.
Alec: our goal with, you know, being regenerative in terms of healing is not just in terms of the physical skin and [00:05:00] the body, but it's also kind of moving the conversation of what beauty is, especially for the younger generations. I'm finding ways to talk about beauty in more ways than just looking good.
Deanna: That's a delightfully comprehensive view of regenerative
Deanna: beauty.
Deanna: and it's, it's interesting, you know, I certainly hear, you know, other brands and leaders mirroring your comments on, on healing, where folks are thinking very, um, more holistically and much more about, um, Yeah, the care of the person, um, and certainly your other concepts there resonate as well.
Deanna: Um, you mentioned, you touched on, um, the matrichines. I'm hoping you can talk a bit about the ingredient technology that you're, you've borrowed from regenerative medicine directly, as well as about your relationship with this company called Xylex Bio. What's going on there?
Alec: Yes. So, um, so Xanax bio, I met, um, a few years ago, So I met them thinking [00:06:00] that they might be a client, So I went out to the lab in Brooklyn. It's at SUNY downstate medical center and I walked in and I was walking down the hall and there's like the AIDS vaccine lab on the left.
Deanna: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Alec: you know, stuff like that.
Alec: And then I got to the Xanax lab and then I sat down with Dr. John O'Neill, who's incredibly passionate and charming and, and has a mission in life to solve this issue of fibrotic tissue of, of different organs because of personal reasons. And so he, um, he came, he started X Bio, he came out of the Laboratory for Stem Cell and Tissue Engineering from, uh, out of Columbia University.
Alec: And, and his, his focus is extracellular matrix. And usually there's, oh, let's talk about stem cell, stem cell, stem cell, and he was like, oh, yeah, I know stem cells are the popular kids, but we are really focused on the stuff that surrounds them. These cells [00:07:00] and sustains their life. they take ECM of some eight, seven, I think about seven organs, the heart bone, intestine, kidney, skin, just skin, just as one other, it's, it's not the largest organ. Like the, the skin for them doesn't stand out.
Alec: Anyway, it's just one of, um, and the liver, liver and lungs. So seven and then, oh, and then, um, and then they also do, um, a fibrotic tissue of each one of those as well. And they basically take the ECM from deceased organs, um, that, uh, uh, that they obtain, and then they hydrolyze. It enzymatically down into these peptides or polypeptides or ECM hydrogels, and then they sell that to pharma and to research
Deanna: As I understand it, what you've borrowed from Xylex Bio then, um, we can think of it as [00:08:00] hydrolyzed cow bone extract, and what you're doing with it in the skincare space then, um, you're working with it as what I would describe as a novel and proprietary ingredient. Um, and you do have exclusive license in the cosmetics industry. Can you talk a little bit about the ingredients functionality?
Alec: basically, um, you know, ECM when it's brought when it's broken down into the polypeptides. Those peptides provide signals, right? Signaling to the cells to regenerate to repair, etc.
Alec: Um, the interesting thing about this is that they have reduced, um, hydrolyzed the ECM into hundreds.
Alec: I think they've mapped out about 315 so far.
Deanna: Okay.
Alec: Uh, polypeptides within the actual ECM. So it's in a way they haven't created anything. They've just, um, taken it from what exists already. instead of damaging the skin to get the peptides to, you know, [00:09:00] to regenerate this, uh, you know, sort of, uh, scar tissue, Why not sort of, um, these, basically what this is, is when they hydrolyze enzymatically the ECM, they're doing the damage at that point to get the peptides.
Alec: And then you can just let the peptides regenerate the skin so that you're, you'll obtain functioning living
Deanna: hmm.
Alec: tissue instead.
Deanna: That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you for that. Um, before I get to my next question, I'm going to take just a minute to share some quick notes on what's happening in the regenerative skincare space because there's a lot going on. regenerative skincare benefits are not new, but I would say that the topic, as your comments have suggested, Alec, Are getting a lot more sophisticated.
Deanna: as an area of focus, longevity has become increasingly relevant for cosmetic science and skin care professionals over the past couple few years. Um, we're starting to hear about concepts like skin vitality. I've heard the term reverse [00:10:00] aging in some presentations. Earlier this year at Cosmoprof North America in Las Vegas, I was introduced to a new brand called NR Lab that's working with nicotinamide riboside that can replenish NAD which is a coenzyme necessary for cell metabolism.
Deanna: I know the Estee Lauder companies have been researching epigenetics and sirtuins for over 15 years now. Um, they presented and published on the topic and even developed their own ingredient technology around that longevity research. As an example from the ingredient space, the ingredient maker Meebel Biochemistry has a skincare ingredient in its portfolio called Rejuvenad, uh, Rejuvenad?
Deanna: I'm not sure I'm saying that right, but hopefully the team there at Meebel will forgive me. Yeah. That ingredient is backed by data, um, showing that it boosts NAD plus levels and makes the skin appear eight years younger. and the U. S. based biotech research company, Carmel Corporation, has been in the news quite a bit this summer.
Deanna: That company, now led by Kendra Bracken Ferguson, is [00:11:00] leveraging secretomics, um, I've heard it pronounced a few different ways, but these are basically the study of proteins secreted by a cell or tissue for regenerative skin care applications. there's research going on for other applications as well, um, in the medical space, as you can imagine.
Deanna: but there is a lot going on with regenerative skin care. Those are just some of the highlights. I, I run through those notes, just to put our conversation, I think, in a bit more context. I'm curious about some of your supply chain partnerships. Um, how did you find manufacturers who would work with a novel ingredient? What was that process
Alec: when we met with the contract manufacturers, I knew right away that there's no way I could be able to go to sort of want any of the smaller or I shouldn't say smaller, but less advanced. I, you know, I went to some of the ones that really had robust, more robust R& D, more robust regulatory, so, um, and I knew what that would mean is that we had to jump through a lot [00:12:00] of hoops, right?
Alec: Um, in, in terms of regulatory, but I knew, first of all, that Xylex had the ability to do that. Um, and and and get what was needful, right? It wasn't me doing it. I didn't do it. Right. Xylox was able to come up with everything that was required. Um, and then, um, and then it has been a challenge, like, working with this ingredient, you know, um, you know, how do we provide the ingredient, right?
Alec: How do we provide it for the water, for water soluble, for, you know, emulsions? How do we provide it for anhydrous systems? Um, in the future, how are we going to provide it for powder? Like, so all that is, and that's something that, you know, the CM labs don't focus on, , and I'm putting the word out too, because, you know, to just like, I was a bench chemist in the early 90s. So I've. You know, I've lost pretty much everything by this point, but to find [00:13:00] to find those that really do do are part of of development is is kind of also what we are looking for, because right now we're doing the best we can to, um, to provide the materials in various forms for various products.
Alec: But it will Xylex is not an expert in cosmetic science either.
Deanna: Right. Right.
Alec: it is a challenge. Luckily, we've been lucky so far in the oil serum. We've had to kind of suspend. The peptide only because we didn't want water in that. And so, you know, we just kind of, but we wanted the peptide in there so badly. I think just for personal reasons, honestly.
Alec: Um, so. So, we do, but that'll evolve, right? That'll evolve that formula become more sophisticated. I'm currently working with a couple of potential, um, labs to help, you know, improve the [00:14:00] suspension.
Deanna: Yes. Yes. Yeah. No, interesting. Lots of challenges for your brand to overcome for sure. Um, and I think you told me in an earlier conversation, um, that the ingredient is currently produced in that lab that you visited in Brooklyn, New York, but as the brand grows and, you know, has international presence, you'll likely want to produce it in other locations.
Deanna: How are you searching for an ingredient production partner? What, what sort of criteria do you have for that partnership?
Alec: I mean, interesting you should mention that because I like, um, we just went to cause and profit in Vegas to start having the conversations, you know, for different, um, uh, to be able to, um, help with that process. But at the same time. Be able, you know, it took 10, 000, 000 dollars and 10 of N. H. government funding in 10 years to actually develop these, um, major kinds, um, because they're utilized in [00:15:00] both, you know, primarily for medicine. So B. S. O. P. To produce them is, is quite complex. I've, I've never seen it myself. so, yes, the, the, the search is on for, um, the sort of future global expansion.
Deanna: Right. Yeah, no, definitely another interesting challenge. Um, maybe not that common. Um, but while we're thinking about supply chain partners, I'd like to talk a bit about packaging. If I can, um, summarize it and please correct me if you don't like this, I would say that you've opted for packaging that has a sustainability story, but also that fits into the luxury market tier.
Deanna: Um, would you agree with that? And, and help us understand your packaging for folks who haven't really looked at the sweet chemistry brand.
Alec: Yes, I would, I would agree with that. Um, it just so happened that yes, it, it's, it, the glass happens to be made in Italy. So, that right there is like prestigious, but at these other, but the real focus was, um, number one [00:16:00] airless.
Alec: people say, oh, it's so small.
Alec: How can you don't give as much product as everyone else? You're giving like, half what everyone else is giving, but it's the same volume,
Deanna: Yeah, yeah,
Alec: there's no size impression. Right? Because these days, if you're talking sustainability, like, why are we talking size impression anymore? I just don't get it. And then the, the, um, the other part is, um.
Alec: Yeah. The glass itself, so what we did specifically is, is made sure that the glass was. Less weight than the plastic, so therefore in production, less carbon emission. And then for this particular one, the choice was shipping from Italy or shipping from Europe to the East Coast, where we produce versus shipping from China to the West Coast, and then trucking it all the way across the country.
Alec: Here, so that sort of freight, um, that, um, [00:17:00] uh, shipping component, um, so all things said and done, we've gotten a bunch of great things. Number 1 is no potential leaching of plastic components when, you know, into, uh, uh, plastic, um, chemicals into the product. Not that I'm fear mongering about it, But I just would rather not if I could not, right, because they are talking about some of the release.
Alec: Of these chemicals into product as it sits there for God knows how long. Um, so the glass itself, and then the glass being 90, it's 90, we've weighed it. The plastic is only in the pump and it's 14 grams versus sort of an average of 140 grams of plastic for most airless jars or bottles. So that's 90 percent less plastic with every purchase.
Alec: And to me that I don't know that feels that feels good. And then the glass, even the glass itself is [00:18:00] so light and unfortunately no size impression. Um, so even the throwing the glass out seems okay, less than some huge glass, heavy, you know, um, packaging.
Deanna: right,
Alec: Um, and then the goal is, luckily, they've, they've, the technology of this airless, they've done it in the screw, screw in instead of a snap on, right?
Alec: Which. For what for many years, I'd be like, no snap on only because the screw, you know, you couldn't like some, you know, you could loosen it or something like that. So it was only, but then I realized, well, okay, just people just need to remember not to, not to unscrew it. Like you just need to keep it tight. So if you don't, it's your fault. Sorry. And just, you know, that's just it. But this way, the goal in the future with future runs is to just be able to replace the bottom glass part. Maybe 4 times a year, like, every 2 or 3 months this way. The objective is the only sort of plastic [00:19:00] that you will that you will put out into the world is 1 tiny pump and over her year per 4 to 6 purchases. And to me that to me, you know, that's just sounds more, um, this whole concept of greenwashing. I, I feel like, okay. This is something that is actually making progress. It cost a fortune,
Deanna: Yeah, yeah,
Alec: but to me it's worth it.
Deanna: yeah. No, that's helpful to hear. Thank you for all of that.
Deanna: Tell us a little bit about some of the ingredients in your formula, um, beyond your hero ingredient and how you're sourcing them.
Alec: yes. So, um, so the botanicals in terms of anti inflammatories, antioxidants, right? Usually that's. For me, kind of why I go down that way in terms of emolliency as well. Um, and, you know, there's the oil soluble antioxidants, the water soluble, the enzymatic, which you, the enzymatic antioxidants, [00:20:00] which don't usually end up being botanicals for the most part.
Alec: Um, but, you know, having that, um, uh, that sort of variety. Um, but when I was looking at the botanicals, number 1, it was, um, okay, which ones are the least allergenic? You know, even chamomile, I decided for the extra not to include it because 25 percent of Americans or people are allergic to ragweed have allergies and the tingling part to me.
Alec: I'm not into the tingling part saying it works. It's irritation. Right? And to me, irritation and the skin barrier don't really go well together in the long run. Um, so I purposely tried to look for the ones that. really did have the least allergen, um, contact contact dermatitis profile profile. So ones like the red raspberry, uh, seed, the pomegranate, you know, and lovely ones like jojoba, um, oh, the Rosa [00:21:00] rabinagosa versus the canina, um, because of sort of more evidence about sort of the vitamin a and help with skin turnover.
Alec: Um, Half of it, I don't, half of it, even I don't know. Is this really, is this really doing something? However, when you look at the constituents of these things, and if you keep them intact within the glass airless, and then making sure they're all fully Organic, they're all grown in with organic farming.
Alec: That's what was our requirement for us. We know that there's still use of pesticide of some sort, right? Even on the organic farming, but it's just much more well thought out in terms of the environment in terms of the farmers themselves As I progress, I'm actually going to be sort of moving suppliers, um, for, for different ingredients to the point where our blog is, hopefully I have no bandwidth for this right now, but at September one, I'll be quitting.
Alec: I'll [00:22:00] be ending my first full time job and working on this full time, September, September one. So a lot of that will be about like, okay, each ingredient, like who is really behind it. I know some of the brands do that. And I've always thought that was like. Yeah, you really are knowing what's in your product and that's got to be I'm actually, I should be, I should feel bad that I don't know more about each supplier.
Alec: Currently, just the requirement by the C. M. was met right
Alec: with the tours. And, um. I feel like it's important and I've seen other brands do this and I will too, and then just make sure that every single ingredient in there is understand exactly where it's coming from and know who know the people behind it as well.
Alec: And that's kind of an enjoyable part. Um, of the process.
Deanna: Yeah. It's, it's interesting to think about sort of the ownership of transparency, but as you're saying to it, it can be quite enjoyable. You're getting to learn even more about, [00:23:00] about how your products are made and what's indeed in them.
Alec: Yes. You. I think you've been, uh, you, you introduced me through one of your stories. I've read about macro oceans
Deanna: Yes.
Alec: and they're now, I think, working with, um, they're working with, um, they got distribution
Deanna: Yes. They're working with OO organics now.
Alec: and, um, uh, gay or organics is like, you know, when I've talked to her and about, you know, her working with macro oceans and, you know, as, you know, I'm very interested in working something with their, with their, um, ingredient as well, because I think it's just such.
Alec: So interesting besides the benefit of the ingredient, but then she happens to sort of have really some good relationships with who she buys from. So, as I'm going deeper into the, into into the industry again, to be able to learn [00:24:00] more about where all these things are coming from, how they're actually done go there.
Alec: Right? done that in another industry with apparel and cotton farming, as I've talked about. Um, but that's definitely a very important, um, part and, and we'll progress over time. I have a feeling that formulas will just keep evolving, um, and getting better and better.
Deanna: Well, Alec, I thank you for a very compelling conversation today. I'm so glad you could join me on the Cosmo factory podcast.
Alec: Thank you, Deanna. I really appreciate it.
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