COSMOFACTORY

Deanna: [00:00:00] This episode is about eco design at the multinational brand level. It's about engaging the supply chain, mobilizing distribution networks. And shifting consumer consumption habits. It's about identifying environmental sustainability objectives that are realistic and implementable, as well as about road mapping.
Those commitments seated across from me Now in the CosmoFactory Podcast recording booth at Cosmoprof Worldwide. Bologna is Emmanuel Hembert, global Lead for [00:01:00] cosmetics, personal care, and Pharma at Quantis . Welcome Emmanuel.
Emmanuel: Thank you. Well, nice to be here.
Deanna: Yes. No, I'm so glad to have this chance to speak with you.
Now, if you and I had sat down for this conversation 20 years ago, maybe a decade ago, we would've been talking about things like carbon footprints and lifecycle assessments. Today we're thinking about terms more like mitigating climate change. We're thinking about building the circular economy and eco design.
Is this all a matter of semantics? And if, if not, which I'm hoping it's not. Um, how have corporate environmental sustainability efforts advanced over the past couple of decades or the past single decade, if that's more appropriate?
Emmanuel: Yeah. The, the could, the cosmetics companies had first to start by, um, measuring the impact of their products and their overall like, uh, activity.
Yes. So that was the first steps. Then they had to. Um, [00:02:00] uh, to commit, uh, according to certain standards and build roadmaps to, uh, meet these commitments. Sure. And the first, the, and most, most cosmetics companies have already done that. The third step is to, uh, work in fact on the activation, uh, of this roadmap and really, uh, focus on the actions that will help.
Uh, reach these commitments and reduce the impact. And this is where, uh, EcoSign, for example, uh, uh, and enters into our secularity, uh, start to be, um, uh, to be topics that companies are dealing with.
Deanna: Okay. I love that we are making progress. I, I like your answer. So if we still, you know, look back over the, over recent years.
Can you speak to how the beauty industry has made measurable, meaningful change, do you think? Do you think we've made a difference in the health of the planet
Emmanuel: as well? Um, I think the cosmetics industry has made, uh, you [00:03:00] significant pro progress over the past, uh, over the past decade. Yeah. Um. They, uh, for example, did lots of work on what is called the scope one, that is to say their own operations.
Mm-hmm. To re, to minimize to the maximum, the, um, the impact of their own operations. Uh, and they have done quite a, uh, good job on that. Uh, they also, uh, moved from, uh, pure talking. Only about climate, climate to, to talk about nature and take into account, uh, the entire set of on environmental topics. Mm-hmm.
And, uh, as we, as we discussed just before, uh, they have now. Moved into actions into the activation of their sustainability strategies, uh, which is, uh, which, which represent a real, real progress.
Deanna: Yeah, yeah. No, it's interesting. I, I feel [00:04:00] like I hear you saying that we're not doing damage at the same level we might have been.
Um, in the, in the past were being much more thoughtful. As an industry
Emmanuel: ex. Exactly. And this is, um, uh, uh, this, this is something that the industry feels that they, they need, uh, they need of course for, um, to be in line with the, the expectation of consumers, uh, to also, um, align with the, with the regulation that is, um, that, that, that has really toughened over the years.
Right. But also to. Um, to ensure the, the, the long term, uh, resilience of their own business models because they need also, uh, um, especially with the, the trend toward natural cosmetics, they need also to have, um, a state of the environment that is, uh, um, [00:05:00] that, that, that is as little change as possible to be able to use the, the natural resources they need.
Deanna: Yes. Yes. Lovely. Thank you for that. And the term EcoSign has already come up. I think I used it and, and I've heard you use it as well. What does EcoSign mean for big beauty makers?
Emmanuel: Well, eco design is to, uh, to look at the, the, uh, the environmental impact of your products. Okay. And to, um. Uh, to, to put, to include into the design of your products, sustainability, uh, criteria, uh, and work.
Uh, towards reducing the, the impact of your products towards the entire life cycle. That is to say from the ingredient production through your own manufacturing, through the use phase and the end of life.
Deanna: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Very good. Can you share an example, or even a mini case study and you know, if you're able to share.[00:06:00]
Uh, literally from, you know, a, a partner or, or client that you work with or, or if not, you know, just general terms so that we can sort of understand, um, what this might look like in practice.
Emmanuel: Yeah. Uh, uh, the company that has, uh, widely communicated, um, around the. Around the topic and we worked with them. Is L'Oreal
Deanna: okay?
Emmanuel: Uh, I think
Deanna: we've all heard of L'Oreal
Emmanuel: Ex Exactly. And they like already, uh, almost a decade ago, they started to create, uh, their own, uh, uh, their own process and see and tool Uhhuh, uh, to integrate. Um. Echo design into the, into the development of all their, uh, all their products. Mm-hmm. And what they did, they started to measure the impact of their entire portfolio.
Yes. Um, and then they put in place, um, thanks to this tool that was, uh, that were, uh, that the whole company were able to. [00:07:00] He's still able to, uh, to use, um, and they put in place around it a governance that, um, makes compulsory for a new product. To be less impactful than the previous product. Right? So to have a virtual circle, uh, about the, the sustainability of their products.
And, and nowadays you talk to anybody at L'Oreal, they know about this, uh, this system, which is called spot. Uh, and they, uh, being in marketing, being in product development, being in operations, this is the, the. Really the, the, uh, the tool around, around which all the company works to ensure, uh, greater sustainability of their business.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. And, and as you've described it, I'm, I'm sure our listeners can already imagine this is a, like a digital tool. Um, and it sounds like, and maybe you just said L'Oreal actually created this for themselves. [00:08:00] How important is it that a company. Creates their own tool. I'm imagining, you know, there are many companies, you know, that are sizable enough to do so and very much want sort of in-house proprietary technologies for, for various applications.
And this might be one of them in terms of, you know, safeguarding the data on their products and that sort of thing. Um, but other companies. You know, might hope that there's a third party option here. What, what do these tools look like? What are the options?
Emmanuel: So until recently, uh, we were advising companies to develop their own tools.
Okay. Because there was nothing satisfactory on the market. Mm-hmm. Uh, over the past one, one and a half year, there has been lots of, uh, new solutions that have emerged, uh, on the market first to, um, uh, digital solutions. First to, to measure, to measure and, uh, and track the corporate footprint. So the, the, the footprint of the whole company.
Uh, they are now moving, uh. To product, [00:09:00] uh, footprint. Uh, and with that, uh, starting to develop, uh, eco design features, so to help, uh, companies to, to develop, uh, better and, uh, more sustainable products.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like, you know, you're advising your customers or clients to, to work with these tools and, and maybe using them in every case.
I'm curious though still about how companies that work with you are finding and choosing environmental sustainability goals that not only make sense, right? I, I feel like we can get there with these tools that you're describing, but also goals that are reachable. Where does that process start? And you know, what does sort of.
An attainable goal. How do you, how do you ascertain if a goal is attainable and worth, worth following through on?
Emmanuel: Yeah. You need, you need to have a, uh, like an end-to-end process to do that. Yeah. Properly. Um, the first step is to identify the hotspots. So what are the areas the. In your [00:10:00] company or on the products?
The, the, the features of the products that have, uh, that are impacting the most, uh, the, the environment. Then out of that, uh, you start to, um, you start to, to, uh, to look at the different frameworks that exist in terms of, uh, uh, commitment to sustainability. Mm-hmm. Uh, and, and you choose them according to your priorities.
And, uh, and the, the, the what, what really you want to, uh, uh, you want to gear towards. Um, and out of that, you are, um, you need to work with the different functions in your company, uh, to identify, uh, the levers, like the operational levers to reduce the impact you need to work with product development, with logistics, with procurement, uh, with marketing, uh, so that they help you.
Uh, [00:11:00] to identify delivered. It needs to be very practical. And out of that, you are able to, um, to create a roadmap and to, uh, identify in fact the, your reduction pathway and the gap to target. Uh, and when you have the, the gap to target then as a, as a comp, as a, uh, in the leadership of the company. Needs really to look, uh, very thoroughly of what are the implications of this cap to target.
Mm-hmm. What do I need to change in the way I operate in my product portfolio, in the way I interact with my suppliers? I. To reach the, the, the gap to target. Right. And that's this way that you can have, after that you can have a, uh, uh, a bigger or, or smaller stretch. Mm-hmm. And that's, that's more like the willingness of the company.
But you have a, a goal that is, uh, that where you have a pathway. [00:12:00] Uh, to achievement.
Deanna: Yeah, no, this makes sense. This makes sense. Um, and just because I, I want to keep learning here, um, and, and sometimes comparison actually helps me clarify things in my mind and, and maybe it will help some of our listeners as well, but can you share with me what sorts of sustainability goals.
Are not realistic. What, what might not be implementable? Are there things that you've seen, maybe your clients, we'd love to do this, and you're like, yeah, no, that can't happen.
Emmanuel: I, I, I think the, the sustainability goals are not implementable when, uh, when they are not done through a thorough process. Oh. When they are just, uh, defined as like an ambition.
Uh, without being based on the, on, on the, the operational, uh, reality. Uh, some companies do that because they want to, uh, they want to shine or because there is a strong belief sometimes from the, from the CEO, uh, or sometimes it's just to follow [00:13:00] the. The competition, but it's important to have this end-to-end process and, and do it really to identify the, the, the, the operational levers and the trade-offs you have to make mm-hmm.
Uh, related to your business model.
Deanna: Yeah. No, I appreciate that. Thank you. And I know we're speaking in very strategic terms here, um, but I'm hearing so much, especially from ingredient suppliers, and I know you work more with, um. You do work with ingredient suppliers, and I'll ask you a question about that in a minute, or at least help your clients, uh, work with them.
Uh, but I hear so much about the concept of biodegradability right now. Do you have any notes or thoughts on that in terms of a sustainability goal? I.
Emmanuel: I know bio, uh, biodegradability is becoming a, a big topic, um, especially because there are regulations coming in, in, uh, in Europe, right? The, uh, wastewater and wastewater treatment, um, [00:14:00] um, the, the, the, the directive, sorry.
Mm-hmm. Uh, so companies start to be very worried about what you have. Also, you have, uh. A public media backlash on the, for example, the PFAS. Right. Uh, so it's a topic that is at the heart of the discussions, uh, uh, especially, especially in Europe. But there are discussions, uh, also in the us There are in discussions in Asia, it's not, uh, it's not specific to, uh, to Europe, and this is why.
It's becoming, uh, more and more important and companies are looking at it, uh, specifically.
Deanna: Yeah. That's helpful. Thank you for that. Um, as I suggested, we'll think a little bit more about the supply chain and upstream and, and downstream partners. Even the work that Quantas done has certainly grown to include this, um, not only your primary clients, but also um.
Collaborating with partners, uh, in both directions there. Can you [00:15:00] tell us how you and then your clients are now working with the cosmetics industry supply chain with maybe retail distributors and involving even consumers in this shift to circularity? I.
Emmanuel: So the, the, our ambition at Quantis is really to transform the entire industry, so the value chain end to end.
So this is why, uh, we have been working, uh, for quite some time now with ingredient suppliers, uh, and also with retailers. Mm-hmm. Uh, it's important that, um, ingredient suppliers and, and the impact of, um, of, um. Uh, the impact of the cosmetics industry, a large part is what is called the Scope three Uhhuh.
That is to say, um, what is outside of the boundaries of the, uh, of the brand, of the brand owners, so the, uh, the suppliers. And it's important to work with them also to help reduce the impact of their, uh, of their ingredients. Yeah. Uh, and they [00:16:00] ask us to help them because they know that we know the. Uh, their clients, uh, and working with the re the retailers, it's also very important because if we want to transform the entire industry, the retailers have a very strong power in terms of becoming, uh, a kind of a platform for sustainable products.
In terms of, uh, criteria they ask, uh, to their, uh, from their suppliers. Mm-hmm. And the way also they communicate about it. Uh, to the consumers. So we are very engaged with retailers as well, uh, on the, uh, on that topic.
Deanna: Yeah, no, that's so interesting. It's such a big project. Um, I, I'm curious hearing your answers so far.
If there really is room for new ideas and creativity in terms of solving for industrial or, you know, beauty industry sustainability, or has this all become, you know, very systematized. We're just running it through a, a, a program and [00:17:00] everyone's kind of doing the same thing and we've stopped thinking about it.
Emmanuel: Uh, no. No, there is a. Constant innovation. Yeah. Uh, the cosmetics industry is quite an innovative, uh, innovative industry. Yes, I would agree. They renew 25 to 30% of their product portfolio every year. Mm-hmm. So the rotation of product. It's quite, uh, it's quite fast. Uh, and therefore they are, they have the ability to bring innovation and sustainable innovation into their, uh, into their portfolio.
And you have, uh, companies, for example, that are. Uh, starting from scratch, uh, uh, being sustainable and looking at the most sustainable solutions throughout their, um, uh, throughout, uh, throughout their, their value chain. Uh, and you have also, um. Uh, in terms of the activations of the, [00:18:00] um, of the, um, sustainability, uh, uh, strategies, uh, we are still at the, uh, at the stage where there are, uh.
Operational trials, we need to make it work. For example, refill is not an easy topic, uh, to, uh, to deal with. And you need also to make sure that you engage the consumer in a, in a positive way, in a way that is appealing to the consumer to have, uh, more sustainable behavior.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you for that.
It's such a large undertaking your company is, is responsible for, um, you know, you and I were, were chatting, uh, before, before the interview started here. And one of the things that's very exciting, uh, you know, about the, the Cosmo Factory Podcast, you know, we get to hear. Great conversations with individuals like yourself, you know, sharing such important ideas.
Um, and as you've just said, you know, innovative ideas [00:19:00] as well. Um, but we, we really couldn't do it without our listeners. I, I, I wanna take a minute to just thank everyone who has been here with us. Uh, for the past year we recorded live for the first time at cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna in 2024. Um, and to be back here this year, um, you know, with a full year's worth of episodes, um, it's, it's amazing to have a global community of listeners.
Um, you may have heard me say already, uh, that the Cosmo Factory Podcast has been downloaded in more than 100 countries around the world, and certainly we don't even have yet 100 episodes. Um, so it's, it's just amazing. I'm, I'm really glad. Um, each of you listening, you know, is joining us each week, um, for these conversations.
I, I think it's, it's really inspiring to, to keep our industry connected in this way and, and amazing. And Emmanuel, I I have to thank you again, uh, for your very important work and for sharing your knowledge here today on the Cosmo Factory Podcast. Thank you.
Emmanuel: Thank you very much. And, uh, I'm really happy to, uh, have this opportunity.
Thank you. Thank you. [00:20:00]
Deanna: You're welcome.