COSMOFACTORY

This transcript is automatically generated.
Deanna: [00:00:00] This episode is about material innovation in the chemical sector, about the principles of green chemistry. It's about newly available natural ingredients. About traceable local raw material sourcing, about the importance of supplier brand collaborations, and much more. For this episode of the Cosmofactory podcast, I'm joined by Oihana Elizalde, CEO of P2 Science.
Deanna: Welcome.
Oihana: Thanks so much. A pleasure to be here and look forward to our [00:01:00] conversation today.
Deanna: Likewise. Thank you so much. Let's start with green chemistry. Uh, in the cosmetic ingredient space right now, green chemistry is commonplace. In fact, um, back in episode two, Matthew Perkins from the startup, uh, called macro ocean spoke with me about that company's reliance on the 12 principles of green chemistry.
Deanna: Uh, but the company that you're leading P2 science has a very strong connection to the framework of green chemistry. Tell us about that. Will you?
Oihana: Yeah, that's right. So, green chemistry has been there, uh, from the get go at P2 Science. So, the company actually started at the Center for Green Chemistry and Green Engineering at Yale University. So, that's where our 2 co founders, uh, met. Paul Anastas is actually the, uh, The father, I guess, of the principles of green chemistry, and then, um, together with Patrick Foley, who is a co founder and president of P2 Science, they met there at the center, [00:02:00] um, and basically started to think about, you know, what it would mean to rethink making materials and ingredients in a different way based on, again, the principles of green chemistry.
Oihana: Which cover everything from the composition and the raw materials that are used, but also the processes that a manufacturer uses to transform. And then what happens to all these materials at the end of life. And they realized very early that in order to rethink and redesign the chemical sector, you almost need to scratch everything that we've done the last 200 years and rethink how to do it differently from the beginning.
Oihana: And that was really how Pichu started.
Deanna: Yeah,
Oihana: Yeah,
Deanna: excellent. I really appreciate that. Thank you. Um, and, uh, Uh, Paul Anastos now sits on your scientific advisory board, I believe. Help us think about that. What other sorts of experts sit on the scientific advisory board and how do they contribute to the company?
Oihana: yeah, that's right. We are [00:03:00] very honored to have an amazing scientific advisory board. Paul is leading the scientific advisory board and is very engaged with the company on a daily, weekly basis. So, we compliment his know how and expertise on the field of green chemistry. Together with two other, uh, scientific advisory board members, Alan Sporogusic.
Oihana: Uh, he sits at the MATTER Lab in Toronto, really leading the way with, uh, AI machine learning in the chemical space. So a very exciting combination when you think about what you could do with natural materials together with the power of AI machine learning. And Vania Leite, who is sitting, uh, in Brazil.
Oihana: Really long expertise on sun care and hair care with her team really helping with understanding how this new chemistry is performing in the cosmetic space.
Deanna: Wonderful. That's so helpful. Thank you. So you mentioned the cosmetic space and not surprisingly, um, myself and perhaps some of our [00:04:00] listeners are best acquainted with P2 science as an ingredient supplier for the cosmetic and personal care industry. Will you tell us about your ingredient technology?
Oihana: Yeah, the main technology we deploy for cosmetics is, uh, our product line called CitraPol. The technology behind it is really exciting. It's really a new type of liquid polymer. If you think about liquids, liquid polymers used in cosmetics, really, we go back to silicones. They've been there for a long time.
Oihana: So when we bring it to the table, it's really exciting. The next new thing that really has come up on liquid polymers, um, what we do here is we take a natural raw materials. In this case, our terpenes that come from the, um, paper industry, they're a byproduct and basically the team invented a brand new way to make polymers.
Oihana: So we are able to take these terpenes and put them together. You know, they self assemble in [00:05:00] a low molecular weight polymer that's liquid. And so we make what we call a policy trolling, which it's a brand new composition. This natural composition never existed before. And that leads us to not just a great natural material, but also.
Oihana: A very high performing natural material that outperforms, uh, synthetics and other alternatives that are out there. So, I think we're just starting to uncover kind of the power that we, we can really deliver by combining brand new ways to make natural ingredients and, you know, get to new performance levels that we've never seen before.
Deanna: Yeah. It's so, it's so inspiring really to think about this idea of natural ingredients that have never existed before. I'm imagining, um, that there's so much possibility beyond this initial line of ingredients that you have. Can you help me think about how you imagine something that's like literally new?
Deanna: That's amazing.
Oihana: Yeah, [00:06:00] that's really like, a really great way to think about how you can innovate really box. Right? Um, so right now, yeah, we have a base line based on this policy and all and a couple of. Derivatives from it, so the great thing with these polymers is that they have functional and core points. We can derivatize into additional polymers.
Oihana: Additional compositions, yeah, so our strategy to push the chemistry and the technology further is around also working with blends with other natural ingredients. Look at synergies because we have a new composition that I think that's Ingredients in a very different way. So I think working with all their innovators with brands to really understand the innovation as well as the formulation of space to really, I think, let natural materials shine in a different way.
Deanna: yeah, yeah. Let's think a [00:07:00] little bit more about the ingredients that you do have now in your portfolio. What are the applications that make sense for these? What, what product categories, product formats, um, where do they make sense and what are the functions that they have in formulation?
Oihana: Yeah, so, uh, we have an ingredient portfolio of about 20 ingredients. Um, 1 part of it is a line of formulated pigments that average worse, you know, color cosmetics for sure. So that's an area that we are working on. Um, I would say the bulk of the portfolio is really, uh, around, um, liquid polymers that are used in hair care, skin care, sun care, uh, great traction with brands in that space.
Oihana: So, of course, you. Think about the sensorial properties. They are great. But on top of that, we see great, um, properties in terms of hair care, for example, shine, combability, heat protection, um, in, in sun care, as you [00:08:00] probably know, it's very hard to formulate with, uh, minerals. So again, we get great sensorials.
Oihana: We're able to keep that naturality, uh, of those products, but they still give a very high sensorial, very desirable. Uh, finish and I would say there's 1 ingredient that's very exciting. It's a triple F. It plays in the fragrance longevity France extensions.
Deanna: Okay.
Oihana: It's probably 1 of the ingredients that we're more excited about right traction.
Oihana: It works across any formulation and it really gives a whole different perception of your finance package. The extension of it, how it behaves after heat storage. But even how it can play with maybe some of others that you get from ingredients that you want to formulate in and help with anything you see.
Oihana: And so we are able to mask those with a very unique polymer. Um, so I would say very broad applicability in the, in the cosmetic space.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. Really interesting there. Thank you for [00:09:00] sharing all of that. Now, like many supply chain companies today, I know that P2 Science is working to shorten, localize, um, supply and production. Can you tell us about, um, traceability, for your technologies?
Oihana: Yeah, I would say that's also where the approach of using green chemistry and how we work really differentiates P2, uh, both from, I would say, the traditional chemical sector, but even some of the other innovations that you see coming through. Um, so we right now do everything here locally in the US, so we are headquartered in Connecticut.
Oihana: Uh, that's where our manufacturing is located, and we basically do 95%. In house of our manufacturing, but even the raw materials come all from the U. S. So for these product lines, we tap into the pulp and paper industry. Uh, so we source from FSC certified forests in the southeast of the U. S. So these are states like Florida and Georgia, [00:10:00] and then the material we source also comes from manufacturers there.
Oihana: So, basically, it comes from the forest straight into Connecticut, where we, we manufacture and finish ingredients. So it's very traceable. I would say it's also local. And I think what's exciting as well, when you think about cosmetics is that you bring in a brand new, different supply chain. Right? So you're either.
Oihana: Very heavily relying on petrochemicals, or you have other natural ingredients like palm oil and coconut, which again, don't grow everywhere. The type of ingredients we're using are available everywhere globally. So, we do have a very robust local supply chain in the US, but we could very quickly. Copy paste that in other parts of the globe.
Oihana: So develop this local supply chains in other regions, which I think is very unique and gives a different level of robustness and agility. Um, the other thing talking [00:11:00] agility that I think is. Great to highlight is our manufacturing technology. So, um, we do green chemistry from raw materials to how we process them.
Oihana: So a concept that's very core to what P2 is, is process intensification. And what this really means is that we do all the chemistry in very small reactors. So basically, if you would come to our. But you would see lots of tubes, so we do everything continues everything in flow in small tubes. And so once you get one working, the way to scale is just adding more tubes.
Oihana: So what this really means is our approach to scale is flexible. Extremely quick, very agile and very low cost. So rather than thinking about, you know, a project where you need to invest millions to that with your capacity, we can stand up a new set of reactors in 12 [00:12:00] weeks at very low cost. So it's really turning, making polymers and how I thought about it from my past life, life upside down.
Deanna: Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's so interesting. Thank you for that. Help us think a bit further in terms of raw materials in other markets. Would you necessarily need something from the paper industry? Is it specific to that input or what sorts of raw materials can you use for this?
Oihana: Yeah, no, we, we are a little bit. Um, agnostic in the sense of the type of plant where we typically use as raw materials are plant based oils or crop based oils. And we do have 2 different transformation technologies. We talked a little bit about what we do with these very unique polymers and using the terpenes.
Oihana: Those terpenes as well are raw materials that we use in another transformation. So we do a analysis, we have, I guess, nature's oxidation. In a process intensified [00:13:00] process. So we use also terpenes to make flavor and fragrance ingredients, but that oxidation process also works very well with plant based oils.
Oihana: Think about, uh, sunflower, safflower, canola oil, soy oil, algae oils. So there is really a breadth of. Oils that we can really use and transform in very unique ways, uh, through our processes. And that's something we are actively innovating on to really expand to beyond beauty and tap tap into industries like fashion performance, polymers, crop care, so anything really around consumers where we are all looking for, you know, better and less toxic solutions.
Deanna: Yeah. Wonderful. Wonderful. Thank you for that. Now, um, over the years, it has been my observation that contract manufacturers and ingredient distributors are often very pragmatic about the ingredient technologies that they offer to their customers. And sometimes this can mean that companies producing [00:14:00] innovative ingredients.
Deanna: Have to find creative ways to get those ingredients into product formulations and onto the retail shelf when you and I spoke earlier this month, you mentioned the importance of brand collaborations. Can you help us think about what brand leaders can do to get novel ingredient tech like yours into their products?
Oihana: Yeah, you're very right. I think the contract manufacturers typically are in a very different timeline. They need to do things for a week. So it is hard to get them on board it. Although we've been pretty successful doing that by really spending time with them, training their teams and really showing them how the products work.
Oihana: But you need
Deanna: good to hear.
Oihana: Yeah, you need to tackle it from the brand side as well. Um, and really understand where they are going with their, um, you know, commitments that they have already made and then really help them understand how your solutions help get them there. Um, so we, we work heavily as well with brands.
Oihana: Um, I would say that. There is an [00:15:00] opportunity for brands as well to think about better and quicker ways to start using solutions that are available, right? Um, as a startup, kind of a smaller company, um, you know, those early success stories, even if they are a regional lounge and not again, right from the get go, the big volume are really helpful to really demonstrate, you know, The use of your ingredients in the market truly show attraction.
Oihana: And I know sometimes, especially large brands want to go big, which is great, big and bold, but that takes longer. So I think finally, maybe again, the best quick entry point where we can really get the story out there, get, you know, the consumers to experience where these new ingredients can deliver while in parallel working on, um, you know, some longer launches.
Oihana: I think that's one approach. And I think the other 1 as well is really tapping into all the innovations. We are not the only people really trying to change things. There are [00:16:00] great solutions out there. And I heavily and strongly believe that the more startups and more established companies that have new chemistry, the more we can collaborate.
Oihana: where possible and really find ways in which our ingredients really help move the needle for the brands. That really helps, uh, in terms of telling a bigger story and the brands feeling more confident and bolder about saying to consumers, Hey, there is a brand new, there is a new product. Technology in this product, I don't need them to understand the full chemistry and how we do it.
Oihana: But the fact that there is a better and different and cleaner chemistry that they are going to be using in their skin, their hair, whatever their routine is.
Deanna: Yes. Yes. Wonderful. You've mentioned supplier collaborations a couple times now in our conversation. Are you able to share any partnerships that you have or what, what, you know, an effective supplier to supplier collaboration looks like?
Oihana: Um, yeah, some of the [00:17:00] detailed partnerships are hard to share right now, because we don't have them in market, but I would say I've seen a lot of if you think about what we do on the type of raw materials. Coming out of the paper industry, there is great technology going around kind of ingredients, things like that.
Oihana: I think another area that's super interesting and I've seen a lot of collaboration in the fashion space, for example, is pigments and ways to bring cleaner products, whether it's for textile finishing or, you know, for color cosmetics. So thinking about how our ingredients and polymers. Interact with those next generation ways to to color things.
Oihana: It's, it's exciting. Um, and think about also actives and other things that, you know, many innovators are looking at.
Deanna: hmm. Mm hmm. And you've mentioned the textile industry there. And at the beginning of our [00:18:00] episode, I promised our listeners that you and I would talk about material innovation in the chemical sector more broadly. Can you share more about how P2 science technologies are having an impact beyond beauty?
Oihana: Yeah, I think, again, there are many industries that are so close by, and sometimes a trend starts in beauty and goes into another industry. Sometimes it starts in, say, Fashion and goes into beauty, right? So, um, some of our technologies starting even with the citric polymers have, uh, in our opinion, great and broad, uh, applicability.
Oihana: If you think about textile finishing uses a lot of chemicals, either to disperse pigments, you know, to fix different ingredients into the surface of the of the textile and we all wash our clothes every day. And everything is. And then I'm going, it ends up going through, you know, through the drain into, into oceans and, and our land.
Oihana: So I think there is a lot of movement and activity in the textile finishing [00:19:00] space where our new polymers really bring a different levels of performance. And we also are going to be joined by developing brand new polymer intermediates. So these are building blocks that you could use to make plant based nylons.
Oihana: Plant based polyesters that really are, um, able to replace what you are able to do through, you know, fossil fuel based solutions. Um, so that, those are areas where I think our plant centric approach, uh, really talk about, or really, um, reflect what we hear brands and consumers, um, really want for next generation materials.
Deanna: Thank you. Thank you. You've mentioned petrochemicals there. Um, and you're often speaking about, you know, your plant based inputs, uh, natural ingredients, uh, as a term has come up many times. I'd like to think specifically before we end to hear about sustainability. Um, it's it's very important. I, I [00:20:00] think, um, with some of the newer technologies, it's almost, um, it's a given, right?
Deanna: We presume that that's what's going on, but help us understand some of the sustainability stories that come along with your technology.
Oihana: Yeah, it's, uh, sustainability is On the 1 hand, a very broad topic. Uh, and I think sometimes people tend to have a very filtered focus where they just want to talk about carbon footprint, for example. So you. You know, there is a lot of tunnel vision going on there. So the approach we take is very broad. It starts with how we source the ingredients, right?
Oihana: So making sure that's done in a very thoughtful way. Because the fact that something is natural, if you are not. Careful on where it's coming from and how it's sourced. It can have. You know, pretty negative impacts as well in terms of biodiversity. So they're looking at the source of the ingredients, how, how we are using them, but how we process [00:21:00] them.
Oihana: So they, the processes we use don't have any other. Handful, handful, um, catalyst, we don't use any solvents to make citropole, believe it or not. We just have the terpene and that's it. Uh, we do everything at mild conditions. So the energy usage of our processes is extremely low and everything is closed loop.
Oihana: So there is no waste generated through the process. And then the other part of it is really what happens with the materials at the end of life, right? Ensuring that they can thoughtfully return to earth without really having any negative impact. So, again, being very thoughtful on all the biodegradability tests that we are running all the talks profiles of the ingredients that we choose just to make sure that we go full cycle from the beginning through how we make it through the end of life of the ingredients.
Deanna: Yeah. [00:22:00] Wonderful. I really appreciate that. That's super helpful. Well, Oihana, this has been a delightfully informative interview. I thank you for joining me on the CosmoFactory podcast.
Oihana: Now, thanks for having us. I appreciate, um, you know, the support and the interest on what we do at P2 Science.