COSMOFACTORY

Deanna: [00:00:00] this episode is about how one of the world's longest standing industrial companies is listening carefully to customer expectations and taking a measured approach to sustainability. It's about the power of regional and local production facilities, about the ongoing search for new materials, and it's about both classical color cosmetics, and contemporary product formats.
For this episode, Christian Eisen, vice President of Global Sales and Innovation at Faber Castell Cosmetics is [00:01:00] with me here in the Cosmo Factory Podcast recording booth at cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna. Welcome, Christian.
Christian: Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. I'm honored to, to have the opportunity to talk a little bit about, uh, fabric Castel and our products and, um, yeah.
Excellent. Looking forward to the, to the discussions.
Deanna: Yes. No, it's very kind of you to take time to join me for an interview today. I would imagine many listeners are familiar with Fabric Castel the company has, has been around since the 17 hundreds, uh, and manufacturing for the cosmetics industry since the 1970s.
Uh, so we probably even think that we know Falber Castel, um. I don't know that I've ever used this, um, sort of alien from outer space construct to ask a question before, but I am gonna do it now. Um, if someone will say, perhaps an alien arrived on earth today and without the benefit of history right, discovered Faber Castel, what would they notice?
What does this company do best?
Christian: Um, I have to say pencils of course, because that's what we're known for for a long, [00:02:00] long time. As you mentioned, cosmetic is a much younger part of the, of the factory. And digging deeper into cosmetic especially, I would even go further and say, um, go a step back and say what we do best is create and, and value relationships with our customers.
So it's of course about the product at the end, but what we are trying to do is really have relationships with our customers and cosmetic. It's really more about understanding business models, about understanding brands. And we are trying to be supportive. We're trying to consult, uh, consumers and customers also in what's the right product for their brand.
And then of course it's the product in the end, but we try to understand and discuss and, and be there for the customers of, we, we value service levels, we value the relationship, sometimes even friendships to our customers. And, and that's what I think Fiber Castel is, let's say, what I would love to fiber Castel be known for in the industry.
Deanna: Yeah, no, that's, that's lovely. I think you only have to be in, in the beauty industry for, I don't know, five minutes to realize how significant relationships are and, and not so much in a, a transactional sense. Right. But, but. The [00:03:00] humanity in this industry is, is delightful. It's, it's nice to hear you say that.
Um, now at the start of the year, there were some changes to the company's supervisory board. I'm curious if you can help us understand how the board is involved with the work you and your team do, sort of on the ground.
Christian: I mean, um, fabric Castell is still a family owned company, so the family is, is definitely around, but we have external.
Management, uh, for the group and also in the cosmetic business. Okay. So it's important to have the family as a part of the supervisory board to, to influence also strategy and long-term, um, development of the company. So it's, it's great that after Countess Mary went out of the, uh, supervisory board that Sarah now is, is in, which is great for us.
Uh, uh, we all love her in the company. She's this, she's always fun to be around and a very humble person. So. It's great to have her now as the young generation, um, to, to influence the strategy and the long-term development of us, um, which is great. Yeah.
Deanna: Yeah. No, that's lovely. And, and you mentioned the Countess, Sarah Von Faber Castel was elected to the board this year.[00:04:00]
I know she has experience working with the Estee Lauder companies as well as their fragrance brand. Uh, Joe Malone, London. Can you say anything in particular about how her tenure might influence the cosmetics business, um, with that expertise?
Christian: Yeah, uh, definitely. First of all, I would love to say that Sarah is such a humble person, you know?
Um, she has been us, been with us here on the show for the first two days. Yeah. And she's so interested and involved in the team and, and, and really very supportive with everything. And, and despite their ex experience and the, in the industry, she's also very much willing to learn, um, to, to join the team, to see how we're working together, a special experience also on our specific, specific business model.
It's great to know that she has already the cosmetic background and she is a person herself, of course, loves cosmetic. Um, so it's the, for us, it's the perfect fit to have her, um, to follow her mother, uh, who was basically founding this cosmetic part of the, of the company and following, um, her. Now it's great to have somebody who also loves the [00:05:00] cosmetic, um, which is real basic for us.
Deanna: Yes. No, that's lovely. Um, you know, you mentioned pencils already. Let, let's circle back and talk about some popular product formats. Um, you do make color cosmetics as well as treatment products, uh, in cran format, pencil format, pen format. Um, from there though, I understand that you work in both wax based and liquid color cosmetics as, as well as, um, treatment products, as I've suggested.
I'm curious what you're hearing in terms of your customer's demand, uh, for liquid formulations in particular.
Christian: Yeah. So first of all, for, for us, it's, it's really important to, uh, create options for our customers. Okay? Yes, yes. Um, to have the, the portfolio to choose from, because there are so many different trends on the market.
Um, one customer likes this, the other one prefers that for the moment. So it's, it's really for us important to, to have these options for the customers. And, uh, we see that liquid products are a growing, uh, growing segments in, in the market. So that's why also from from our side, we put much development into that, put much [00:06:00] resources into that to, to create formula that really, um, yeah, fulfill the expectations that the customer has with these liquid products compared to the wax product.
So, um, yeah, we really like to think that as a, as a growing pillar for us and, and, um, despite the, the, the, yeah. High percentage of back pencils that we, we sell. Sure. Still, obviously, because of our history, it's really. We have great formulas and the customer ask for that specifically because the, you know, the makeup style is a little bit different, one with liquid.
So creating options is, is the key.
Deanna: Yeah, no, that's good. That's good. I, I'm curious, um, you know, we can think about maybe benefits or application experience of liquid formulas too, but I guess I'm curious a little bit about the technology to actually deliver liquid. Uh, can you say anything about, about what you, what you have in your portfolio there?
Christian: So, so we have the felt tip pencils, basically. Okay. Uh, they're from a technical point, there are different ways of how to deliver it, but the key is that it always delivered [00:07:00] through an applicator while wax based is really applied directly. While all the liquid formulas you have to apply through an applicator.
So we have to have to different expertise because you have to deal with this applicators, which are so important because they're a main part of the how to applicate it, um, for us. We have many, many options, um, slim and jumbo applicators for different applications. So most popular obviously is the eyeliner that you have, but you have so much more things now, uh, lick, uh, liquid lip products coming up for eyebrow.
It's, it's, it's great due to the really different application aspects that you have compared to a wax pen. So consumers appreciate the high performance, you know, um, the, the, the clear application. The precise application. You can, um, be more. Artistic with a liquid pencil than you can be and with a wax based and even more precise.
Deanna: Yeah, no, that's so interesting. Now my mind is just thinking about, um, you know, like the physics of water. Like I, I, I think I need to learn more. You, but you have so [00:08:00] much potential in terms of a liquid product, like the, the natural behavior of a liquid. I, yeah, I need to learn more. This is, is very cool.
Christian: Yeah. But that's one of the challenges. Yeah. To have the water-based formula that, on the other hand should be waterproof and things like that. So it's, it's kind of, kind of tricky, but I think we did very, very well with our new formulations.
Deanna: Yeah. And are there any, um, you know, you mentioned water obviously as a key ingredient in a water-based formula, but are there other notable or maybe unusual ingredients that your customers are asking for in a liquid product formula these days?
So
Christian: the main thing has been in the last years, the ingredients that they don't want to have in these liquid products. Okay, fair enough. So that was, was a big, big thing, uh, for us also and for the industry to make these products really, um, according to the clean list and blacklists that are out there on the market, um, that was a big challenge.
Um, so get rid of the pegs, get rid of an oxygen, and, um, to have that really clean. Yes. So we achieve that. And besides that, then. Everybody wants the performance that we just [00:09:00] discussed about it, right? So that, that was the challenge. And then talking about ingredients that there should be or might be, or can be, uh, we're thinking a lot about actives, um, which are, um, more easier sometimes to have in the liquid products and in avac based product.
So, for example, our new product features, um, ingredient that's called Whitelash. Okay. So if you put that in an eyebrow pencil or in a, um, um, eyeliner pencil. You support, um, hair growth. Mm-hmm. Or strengthening of the eyebrows and the lashes. Okay. Which is something that the consumer actually ask for to have additional benefits.
So, um, active is the, the key here. So, or you can talk about stains that you can put in liquid products. Um, yeah, that's, so the thing that we're, you're thinking of and the consumer ask for, to have like additional benefit. Besides the just makeup effect.
Deanna: Right, right. No. Excellent. Um, I'm looking over my interview notes here.
I have so many questions for you, but, um, let's, let's quickly touch on wax based formulas as well. I don't wanna skip that. Mm-hmm. What are some of the advantages of [00:10:00] wax based color products, or when are customers asking for that over the liquid Option?
Christian: WAX is, is still the, the main product out there when it comes to, to liners.
And that's basically, I would say for two reasons. The one is, is colors. We're much more flexible in backspace to create colors and effects with them. Okay. Like we have multi chrome effects, for example, that are not really possible in, in the, um, liquid due to the applicators that you work with. So they're much more options, way more flexibility in backspace formulas.
And the other thing is the way backspace formula, um, interact with the skin and, and the application. So the formula is like a really kind of sometimes melt into the, the skin. You have more options to play around with to smudge them when you go from an eyeliner to the eyeshadow or something like that, that's more playful.
Um, that, or when you think about concealers, for example, that you can blend it into the skin or something like that. So it's more natural finish, definitely than the, the liquid. So that's still the, the key. And [00:11:00] then putting the liquid on top is the perfect.
Deanna: Right. No, that's excellent. And I, I appreciate the reminder that you're not working only in color products, but complexion as well there with, yeah, with concealer and such.
So throughout Europe, I know that for your company, the sort of country of origin label, right, made in Germany is a, is a value add for your customer. And I would guess that that's especially true in maybe recent years, the past five years or so, I know regional and local production has been very in demand.
I'm curious if you'll tell us about your global approach to regional production, because I believe you're producing in various regions around the world.
Christian: Yeah, so we're a German company and we basically do a hundred percent of our products in Germany, made in Germany, but we have options. So especially, uh, through the Corona crisis, we learn that accessibility is, is something that is key for our, our customers.
So that's why we, um, put a lot of effort in, in making our US plant. More fit to really, um, produce local products, meaning having a local supply chain, [00:12:00] not only a local filling, but really doing local by production or having local, um, local components, local materials and and so on. Yeah, so that's where we put a lot of effort to not only have the real filling in the end, but really a local supply chain.
So working together with local suppliers, that's what we do in the us. Um, and on on top of that, we have the factory in Brazil, which is, is, uh. Huge for, for wood pencil productions. We have the own forest there, which also helps us to have this local wood supply, uh, which is actually a great, great story. Um, and so, and, and again, um, local production for the local markets.
Brazil is very specific as a local market, so we love to be there and, and, um, serve the customers there from the, but, but that's more or less the, the approach that we have. Yeah. Trying to be local. We're not in Asia so, so strong yet we don't have any production there. Okay. So that's why we're also not so focusing so much on the market, but really Europe from Germany, um, north America from mm-hmm.
From the US and then, [00:13:00] um, Latin America from Brazil.
Deanna: Yeah. And, and quickly, can you say something about what is standardized across the facilities? I'm sure there's a, an ethos right? To fabric castel that you share, um, in region to region.
Christian: Yeah. So, so when it comes to our, to our products, we're very quality driven.
Yeah. We, we, um, have. Global r and d In Germany, we have a global quality control in, in Germany, so we define everything in Germany. Then it's rolled out in terms of processes. So the process is standardized. So companies work for the global products for the same processes. Um, so that should be standardized as much as puzzle.
But then of course we have the local execution, and especially for Latin America, we have also some local products because the market there works a little bit different. Sure. So it's also necessary for us to support the market with what they actually need. But, but yeah, that's more or less key global quality, global r and d global products, and then standardization of the processes and then trying to be as, as efficient as possible with Yeah.
Local supply chains.
Deanna: Yeah, no, I like that. Local supply chains are like, I, I suggested [00:14:00] super significant and I think we'll be increasingly so, um, sustainability figures into that. Note as well. That's certainly one of the reasons, uh, we're looking at a more global local industry all at once. Yeah. Um, but since sustainability is such an important topic for the cosmetics and personal care industry, I wanna mention that we are hearing a lot about biodegradable beauty lately about mono material packaging.
Can you say something about what you're hearing from your customer, what they're actually asking for?
Christian: So what, what comes to us is, is really in terms of material, in terms of packaging material. Sure. Everybody's asking about recyclability and recycled materials. So PCR is key, then mono material is key so that it, it is recyclable in the end.
Sure. So that's something that comes to us more often than biodegradability, to be honest, when it comes to packagings. Um, so that's why we're really investing money to make, make sure that we're tyro free, that we have also good PCR materials. Um, there are PCR [00:15:00] materials, but then you need PCR materials that, um, are, are also able to.
Adapt to the requirements of the industry, which is basically color, you know? So you need to have a lot of color, you need to have a color, um, reliability. So that's what the industry expects. So that's why there's still a lot of, um, research going on in, in terms of that kind of material, and that's really what we are focusing in.
Deanna: Sure, sure. You and I were speaking before today's recording, and you made a, what I would call a thought provoking observation about the end consumer in beauty. You told me. The consumer today very much wants to enjoy beauty products without a sense of shame, without feeling like they're doing something wrong when it comes to environmental sustainability.
Can you say something about how you see this sort of expectation influencing our industry's sustainability efforts, or maybe your company in particular, if you can?
Christian: I mean, we all saw that the industry was talking so much about sustainability and, and, um, in the last years. And in, in [00:16:00] my opinion, and also ALD point of view, sustainability has to be there.
Yes. It's not an option. No, of course. I don't want the consumer to, to have the decision, should I go for a sustainable product or a non-sustainable product? It, it must be clear for the consumer that if they go out and buy something, that sustainability aspect is taken care of, basically. Yeah. So by following all the, the rules, by following all the blacklists.
So that should be. No option. So I want the consumer to go out there and buy cosmetic because they want to have fun. They, they love the colors, they want to have the performance and so on. So it should not be an, an option to, to like, right. They're
Deanna: not at the shelf making an ethical decision.
Christian: Exactly.
Should I go for the good product or for the sustainable product? So that's what we try to, to do to create products that are sustainable in a, in a best possible way. Uh, I think we all know the most sustainable product is probably the one you don't buy. That's not what we're aiming for. We want the consumers to consume, we want them to buy our product.
So let's make it easy for them by making sure that the sustainability level is there, you know? Yes, yes. So, and of [00:17:00] course it needs to develop and we need to get better and better and better. But for the consumer, the decision in the end is like, do I like the product?
Deanna: Fair enough. Yes. I like that. I like that answer well enough.
Um, now I did promise everyone listening that you and I would talk a bit about the search for new materials. And you've, you've, you've mentioned materials a bit there. Um. In the conversation earlier, but I'm wondering if you've found anything interesting in plastics and metals and composites. Are there, is there anything you've come across that would be very intriguing?
Christian: Yeah, so we, we do a lot of research as you, as you can imagine, and, and also on when you're on a show here, you, you see suppliers and you, we get a lot of options or the thing for us it's that it's always. Tricky to implement new materials because of the compatibility issues. And so that you have to deal with when you come, when it comes to formula.
So it's not like, okay, we take that material. That's interesting. So it's, it's always, it has to work with the product formula, big project has, it has to work with your equipment, I imagine as well, the equipment and, and things like that. So that's why what I mentioned before is really for us is the, the PCR material [00:18:00] going into mono, um, pp in our case, um, finding materials that also we have a, a big, big part of the, the business, our plastic shop nipple.
Pencil. So you also have to find materials that are like easy to, to work with. Mm-hmm. Sharpen ability is mm-hmm. Is a key to that. You know, the wood pencil is easy to sharpen and then you go for a plastic pencil and Yeah. Yeah. Again, sustainability. Yes. But you also need to use the product in the end. Yeah.
So you need to find something that, that really works. So we have some interesting collaborations and corporations with our customers and, and we're trying to, you know, maybe not to spoil too much, but we'll also bring out something new there. Yes. And what I also like to mention. Again, I, I did it before, but, but very briefly, um, what we are doing right now is we're trying to, um, make more use of our own supply chain with the wood forest.
Uh, with the wood, yes. That we have in our forest in Brazil. Um, so we have FSC wood in Brazil and we're trying to use that more also for our ma made in Germany pencil. So I think that's also [00:19:00] something that is really specific about fiber castel and very interesting for the industry to have a really.
Sustainable supply chain for wood pencil. Mm-hmm. Because that's thinking about materials and sustainability. That's the, the one that really stands out in my opinion.
Deanna: Sure. No, absolutely. And, and you've suggested here that a show like Cosmo Pac is a, a very good place right. To speak with packaging, maybe even some material science companies.
Um, and, and certainly I'm sure you're seeing it and, and I'm seeing it throughout my work as well, that novel materials are coming to market all the time. It, it really just is a matter of. Do they work with the infrastructure and, and, and the industry as, as it, um, uh, you know, I guess needs to, um, but let's put it out there, uh, for inventors and some, you know, startups to solve, help us solve this challenge.
Right. So if you could create your dream material, tell me maybe what attributes it would have or, or what it would be. Let's, let's give them, give them a fun problem to solve.
Christian: Well, I mean, I'm a very. Practical. No. Kind of kind of guy. You know, big picture, big picture here. Big picture. It has to, it has to be [00:20:00] easy, you know?
Okay. It has to be easy. Um, so, um, speaking about all the complex complexity that we have with our product, so let's have a material that just works with all our formulas, but still is easy to produce. Um, uh, so we have a lot of color changes, uh, going on in our industry, you know. So that needs to be something that is easy.
And
Deanna: when you talk about color changes, you're thinking about like decoration,
Christian: not, not only decoration. We always match, uh, barrels to the formula. So the, so yes, yes, yes. We having yeah. Like quick changes and, and the production Yeah. From, from a specific red to a green or whatever. Mm-hmm. And that needs to work very easy.
And then of course, I mean, in the end, we need to think about the disposal of the material once it's there. So that should be no problem. Mm-hmm. That should be worry free. Mm-hmm. Maybe there's something that, uh, like a second use of the product instead of just getting rid of it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thinking of something that you can do with it.
I, I mean, for me it, I like to think about these things that you had as a kid that you used and then you could eat it or something like that. So maybe you can create a material [00:21:00] that is eatable or something like that. Right, right. So the disposal is no problem. Yeah. So you have your cosmetic pencil and once you're finished you eat the package.
So if, if, if it's something like that, then make it healthy and, and tasty. So I love it. All the inventors out there. Yeah.
Deanna: And I like, I like the, the word you taught me also earlier sharpen ability. That's a, a fun challenge, um, in your line of work, isn't it?
Christian: Definitely. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So, um,
Deanna: yeah, no, this is fantastic.
I ha have very much enjoyed learning from you. And I have to say that over the past year, um, along with all of you listening, I have had the opportunity to learn so much about what the global cosmetics industry is achieving, about how we're innovating, uh, how we're inspiring each other to create the next evolution of beauty.
Um. You're listening to the Cosmo Factory Podcast from countries all over the world, and I am as the team at cosmoprof Worldwide. Bologna is as well. Truly grateful that you take the time each week to join us here on the Cosmo Factory Podcast. I, I thank everyone so much for listening, and Christiane, I thank you for your time, for your ideas.
I'm, I'm grateful that you could join me today on the Cosmo [00:22:00] Factory Podcast.
Christian: It was a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having us. Um, always welcome. Whenever. Thank you. Great. Thank you so much.
Deanna: I appreciate it.