COSMOFACTORY

Deanna: [00:00:00] This episode is about healthy aging. It's about women's wellness and intimate care, about brand building. Ingredient selection, supply chain, agility, and much more. Joining me for today's episode of the CosmoFactory Podcast is Sally Mueller, co-founder and CEO of Womaness. Sally, welcome to CosmoFactory.
Sally: Oh, thank you, Deanna. I'm so excited to be here.
Deanna: No, I'm really glad to chat with you now. It was just over 10 years ago that the industry was [00:01:00] really watching independent beauty brands gain market share, and along with the indie movement, clean Beauty was on the rise. And, and this is where today's women's wellness category seems to have begun. Uh, brands like the Honey Pot Company and Lola launched in 2014 with a clean beauty approach to period care.
And I give brands like those, a lot of credit for normalizing intimate care products place in the beauty sector. Uh, in today's market. Menopause brands fit right into the women's wellness conversation. Sally, this is where I'll, I'll start asking you some questions. Can you describe for us what menopause care is?
What is this?
Sally: Well, menopause care is, I would say a very comprehensive plan, including. Um, finding the right doctor that is skilled and trained in menopause. So not, it doesn't mean that it could, you know, it's, it is just a gynecologist. It should be, it could [00:02:00] be a nurse practitioner, it could be a gynecologist, but they have to be trained in menopause care and really understand the stage of perimenopause, menopause, and post menopause.
Um, so I would say the first part of menopause care is finding the right doctor. The right expert. And then I think it's also the right over the counter products. Um, so there's, you know, obviously we womanist offers, uh, over the counter products. There's other brands in the market as well. Um, but it is.
Finding the right combination of products and services that really meet your needs. And, um, you know, there's over what, 45 maybe even more symptoms of menopause. So really understanding the changes that you're going through in your body and how they relate to your menopause [00:03:00] journey as well.
Making that connection so you know, what to, what issues to solve.
Deanna: Yes, that makes very good sense. We can't solve something if we don't, if we don't know what it is we're trying to solve that, um, that's perfect. And I, I would call womaness, uh, the brand. You lead a across category menopause brand. Um, I believe you're investor backed as a startup. You're based in the US. Um, you launched about five years ago, and correct me on any of those details if I don't have them.
Right. Um, but tell us about the Womaness mission and product portfolio. Where do you fit in this menopause care concept?
Sally: womanness is all about modernizing healthy aging and um, with a particular focus, obviously on addressing the major symptoms of perimenopause through post menopause. So we really specialize, I would say, in helping that midlife woman. Through that entire transition, um, which she's in [00:04:00] for about 40% of her life.
A lot of women don't realize that menopause, you know, starts and in perhaps your 30, late thirties, forties, and it goes until you leave the earth. Um, so it's a huge. Part of our, our life and our mission is to really educate her, provide support through community. Obviously offer products that are, um, clinically proven affordable.
You mentioned clean. We've worked really hard formulating products. That are clean, meaning clinically, you know, proven ingredients, but also natural ingredients wherever possible. And all of our products are, uh, hormone free, soy free vegan, you know, meets all of the European standards for clean as well. So we're really proud of the quality of our products.
Deanna: Very good. And, and if you would, can you talk us [00:05:00] through the product portfolio insofar as categories? I'm assuming you have things that the beauty industry is very familiar with, like topical skincare, but, but what, what sort of products do you offer?
Sally: So we offer, uh, skin, you know, skincare, body care. We offer vaginal care, so vaginal moisturizers, um, as well as other sexual wellness products, and then supplements. So we really are in, I, we would say three major categories, but our whole philosophy is. You know, we think about it from head to toe and from inside out.
Wellness is not just, uh, inside job, it's also what you put on your body. So it's really important to make sure that you're using products that are, you know, very healthy for you. And, um, obviously absent of any, you know, chemicals and tox, you know, toxins as well.
Deanna: Sure, sure. [00:06:00] Um, and you mentioned education a moment ago. I, I think that fits in with, um, what I think about, um, in terms of brand building as I suggested, uh, woman s is a reasonably new brand, and I'm curious how you're balancing educating the market, educating your customer, and maybe your retail partners and that sort of thing with the challenge of then differentiating your brand in this new menopause category.
Sally: I mean, when we first launched five years ago, we came out, I, I would say, very loud and proud about menopause. And, um, you know, we were pitching all, you know, the morning shows and I'll never forget, you know, our, our PR agent at the time said, you know. So-and-so morning show doesn't wanna cover vaginas at 9:00 AM in the morning.
Well, guess what? Now they are. So we really feel like we were on the forefront of educating women about aging and [00:07:00] menopause. We were obviously really focused on changing the conversation. And making sure that, you know, this is not a stigmatized, uh, transition in, in a woman's life, that she's actually in the peak of her life.
It's, it, it can have a silver lining. Yes, it's hard to get through it and some days are really tough, but overall, you know, I think we're all better. Um, as we, as we, you know, really grow in this stage. So, you know, I think that we have differentiated through this voice of the brand. Um, I think we get a lot of credit for being real women.
Are helping like real, you know, our team is all women, Michelle, my co-founder and I are just normal women. We're not celebrities and we are working so hard to help women and women see it, you know, and I think that's really, uh, helped us differentiate in the market [00:08:00] because we do have. A point of view. We are real women speaking, you know, to this huge audience.
And, um, it's hard because, you know, we don't have a built in celebrity following, but I think it's more authentic. I think it's, it's relatable to women as well. So it's really helping us break through.
Deanna: That's so interesting to think about. Um, and I, I do have some supply chain questions for you. Many of our Cosmo factory listeners work along the industry supply chain, and you mentioned the concept of free from Right. This idea is still fairly common in beauty marketing as in free from certain ingredients.
Um, you mentioned products on your e-commerce site show up as, um, I believe you said hormone free, but I, I think I saw a language that says estrogen free. You suggested, um, you've made a choice to be soy free. I definitely wanna talk about ingredient selection. I, I wonder, are you choosing traditional ingredients that you're being shown that [00:09:00] have maybe new testing data with benefits, um, that are appropriate for the menopause consumer?
Are you finding truly new ingredient innovations in the marketplace, or, or what's available? Um, when you're shopping for ingredients, uh, for a brand like this?
Sally: You know, when we first launched, we launched with 13 products and which is a lot. Um, and we ended, you know, up really hiring experts in each. One of the categories. So we had a nutritionist as well as a scientist helping us identify all the right ingredients for supplements. So we knew what symptoms we wanted to address, and then they helped us figure out, okay, what are the latest, you know, science.
To back some of these ingredients, you know, the, these ingredients that would address these symptoms. So, for example, we chose to invest in an ingredient called Pycnogenol. It's not widely known. I think it's, it's gaining a [00:10:00] lot of traction, but it helps with blood circulation. It's specific, you know, specifically helping women with hot flashes.
Uh, even period cramps. So there's a lot of science backing that and a lot of, you know, obviously, uh, clinical research that's been backing that ingredient. So we decided to really focus on ingredients that had proven results. Um. That some ingredients, you know, the consumer would recognize. So they, there was that built in trust, but also introduce some new ingredients that had the research backing them. it's all about efficacy, as you know. I mean, especially our customer, if she doesn't have a good experience with product, she's not gonna come back. So for us it was at all costs. It was about product performance.
Not worried about the price point we [00:11:00] were going to hit, per se. It had to perform,
and then we surrounded it with, you know, beautiful packaging and, you know, just the overall experience.
But it has to start with the ingredients and the, and the formulations.
Deanna: Sure. And you know, that makes very good sense for anyone who's ever developed ingredients or, or formulated a product. Um, the efficacy data is. Is always, I think, the most relevant. And I think the example you gave with Pycnogenol is a, a really helpful one. Folks in the industry or in the wellness industry, um, might be very familiar, um, with this ingredient and the team behind Pycnogenol.
Um, I. Has invested remarkably in clinical research o over the years, um, and, and demonstrated, um, significant efficacy for different applications in different, um, markets. So I think the fact that they're able to bring that to a brand like womans and show you product efficacy that's relevant for your particular consumer, [00:12:00] um, you know, just speaks to that sort of level of investment.
And I think sometimes, um, ingredient companies. I don't think they're shy to do it, but there's sort of, um, you know, there's such an appetite for newness in the cosmetics and personal care industry that if you're not launching a new ingredient, um. Uh, there's almost, um, some sort of hesitation between saying, but look, we have new data and it's really interesting.
Um, you can, you can use this ingredient for an application or an, you know, a new product category like menopause care. Um, and I, I think, you know, investing in that sort of clinical research is, um, you've, you've pointed out how relevant it is and, and certainly many companies are doing that. Um,
Sally: We've also
formed, sorry, I was gonna say we have also, we have direct relationships with these ingredient companies that we work with. So, you know, pycnogenol is owned by pha. We work directly with them to understand, you know,
the, [00:13:00]
their latest studies. We also share what we're learning from our customers too.
And, um, that collaboration I think is so important. Just to keep up with, with, you know, what the consumers are responding to, what's performing for, for everyone. So, um, you know, I, I. Obviously just mentioned Pycnogenol, which is in our menopause supplement, but we've also done the same thing with our skincare, for example, when we were formulating all of our skincare, um, and it, and we worked with a formulator that had a lot of experience with aging skin, and she worked side by side with Michelle and I on all the product development.
Um, and then we worked with the lab, obviously and going back and forth what, for over a year on perfecting all the formulations. But it was, so I remember the day when she said, you know, there's this really interesting ingredient, um, that's now [00:14:00] available called high clear seven, and it's an advanced form of hyaluronic acid.
So we knew we wanted to use hyaluronic acid, but we knew that. Aging skin, menopausal skin needs so much more hydration. And so AK Clear seven was so interesting to us because it was a more potent version of, uh, hyaluronic acid. So we ended up putting AK Clear seven in all of our skincare.
Deanna: Mm-hmm.
Sally: So it was, it was a collaboration, I would say, between the experts that we hired, the ingredient companies, and obviously the labs.
And you know, it took, what, almost two years to formulate all these products.
Deanna: Sure. No, it, it's nice to hear, you know, not only about your team's effort, but about the, the industry collaboration that you've been able to, um. Be a part of that's, um, speaks well to, to everyone involved for sure. There is, of course, more to the cosmetic supply chain than [00:15:00] ingredients. Uh, you and I spoke earlier this year and, and you pointed out, um, the issue of MOQs, uh, minimum order quantities a a challenge for every brand. But you also told me that suppliers could find, um, some other ways to provide support in terms of timelines or financing options.
Um, I'm, I'm curious. To know from your experience, uh, building the brand, if you happen to suddenly find yourself working as a product manufacturer, what, what would you do to accelerate the success of emerging brands?
Sally: I think you hit on some of the, the things that I would consider, um, lowering MQs, you know, so that we can test, we can. Um, you know, and I'm, I'm talking maybe going from like 10,000 units to 5,000 units. It's not a hundred units. I, I, we understand that you have to have some skin in the game and you have to give things a chance.
But I think in retrospect, had we been able to lower some of the M [00:16:00] OQs, we wouldn't have obviously taken so much of our cash and invested in an inventory that, you know, perhaps. Without any learning, right? So that some of that inventory just sat there and did not really move. And some of it was obviously moving really well.
So being, I think, open to figuring out, uh, the agility around the minimum order quantities, I think is really helpful for emerging brands. Um. I also think that some of the new modern suppliers are really thinking about, um, financing and, you know, uh, they, they might have the opportunity to get financing from their own debt provider, which they can pass on to the brand.
So that's,
Deanna: What would that look like? Help me understand that
Sally: um. Payment plans that are conducive [00:17:00] for, you know, obviously startups. And, um, we have one happening right now and the, and the, the sys, the supplier that we're working with is, he's a former operator, like a brand operator, and so he really understands how hard it is to. Find the cash for, you know, 50% down upfront, 50% upon shipping.
And so he is worked with us on figuring out the timing of everything so that we perhaps can be paid by a retailer before we have to pay the final invoice to, to him. Um, and you know, and I understand you have to kind of earn that ability. It doesn't happen overnight, but I do think. What would be helpful is having suppliers be more innovative on the money or finance side of things.
You know, many of these suppliers have, you know, very established businesses, at least the [00:18:00] ones we've worked with, and they can get credit lines as well, but maybe the. Emerging brand cannot. So it's like how do you leverage the, you know, the financial, um, I would say capacity of the supplier to really help the emerging brand.
Deanna: Yeah. No, that's helpful to, to hear about. Just let the industry brainstorm with you. I, I.
Sally: I know, I know. Yeah. And we've had, you know. We've had the gamut of different models and um, obviously when we first started we had very, very strict payment terms, you know, because we were just starting, we didn't really have the, you know, the credibility yet, but we were also venture backed, so we were able to pretty quickly prove that, you know, we can, we can stretch, you know, the payment sound, get better payment terms.
But as you know, with the startup. Even in the first five or s, you know, [00:19:00] 10 years of the business, it's all about cash management. So we can, we could grow a lot faster, but cash is always the issue.
Deanna: Mm-hmm.
Sally: if a supplier can figure out how to help brands like ours, it's just very advent advantageous for all of us.
Deanna: No, and you're, you're pointing out to, you know, sort of the speed of growth, um, and how related that is to, um, you know, to financing options, I think is, is very relevant because suppliers are often looking for the brands that will scale quickly. Um, and to know that they can be a part of it in this way I'm sure is very helpful.
So I do have another question for you, but before we get to that, I want everyone listening to know that, um, it was about three or four months ago, uh, in episode 70 of the Cosmo Factory Podcast. I interviewed the CEO of Gen M. This is a UK based organization that created a standardized. SEAL system to help consumers recognize products with specific benefits [00:20:00] relevant to menopause.
So if the menopause market opportunity is a topic that you're interested in learning more about, you might want to play that episode rather when you're done listening to this one. Um, but Sally, getting back to our conversation here, we've been talking very much. About the current women's wellness and menopause beauty movements along with the supply chain.
And I really appreciate your sharing those insights. 'cause I know they're, they're very helpful for our listeners. Um. But while we're thinking about women's wellness, about menopause beauty, there are at the same time a number of personal care companies doing quite well that own and operate legacy brands in the intimate care category.
I'm thinking of companies like Edgewell, um, I'm thinking of Comb p and g, just just for example. I'm not going to ask you to comment on any of those companies specifically, but I would love to hear your thoughts about the direction that this sector could and should be going in.
Sally: I, you know, I think that [00:21:00] we need legacy. C brands, right? They, they validate the category. They're obviously still productive on shelf at retail. Um, but I think women are wanting some of these new modern brands, uh, you know, like ours. Um, based on our research too, and just the feedback that we've gotten, I think that women are.
Not wanting to use their mo, you know, their, their mother's menopause products, um, is how they say it. So there is this openness to trying new products. Um, you know, it's all about, as you can imagine, building trust. And that's what those legacy brands have. They do have trust, they do have a name, and so they, they totally.
Like I said, warrant the space on the shelf. But there's room for more innovation happening and I think just more companies that have education and community and just [00:22:00] all of the components of a modern brand, um, that surround the product. So many of those legacy brands, in my opinion, are kind of soulless and.
Deanna: You know, the consumer connection is changing, isn't
Sally: Yeah, the consumer connection is changing and I think women want to spend money with women backed organizations and or, you know, companies. And so it's, um, it's a whole package. You know, it's not just about selling product, it's about the fact that we are real women, you know, working really hard to support other real women.
So super proud of that, but I, um, you know, there's nothing wrong with these legacy companies as well.
Deanna: No, of course. I, I think that's something we, we recognize in, in every sort of niche of the industry. There's, there's so much room for, um, collaboration and, and sharing in the marketplace, and there's a, and there's a customer for, for [00:23:00] everyone. Um, there really is.
Um,
well, Sally, you've been very generous with your time and your insights today.
I thank you for being my guest on the Cosmo Factory Podcast.
Sally: Thanks, Deanna. It was so fun to talk to you.