COSMOFACTORY

Luxury in Transition, featuring Borghese Inc. Chief Operating Officer Dawn Hilarczyk
Deanna: [00:00:00] This episode is about communicating luxury and sustainability with thoughtful visuals and packaging design elements. It's about a consumer first approach to product aesthetics and labeling, and it's also about the complex overlapping realities of consumer expectations, supply chain solutions, recycling, infrastructure, regulatory requirements, and brand mission. My guest on today's episode of the Cosmo Factory Podcast is Dawn Hilarczyk, [00:01:00] chief operating Officer at Borghese , Inc. Dawn, welcome to CosmoFactory. No, I'm, I'm looking forward to this interview for sure. Now, several years ago, uh, there was quite a bit of conversation, maybe even confusion we can say about, um, the oxymoron that seemed to exist between luxury beauty packaging and sustainable beauty packaging.
I. I know that you are drawing on very current consumer insights to solve for this, um, to help visually and, and tangibly ensure that, uh, luxury brand design aligns with sustainability. Uh, Borg gaze for folks who don't know, has a long history in skincare. So you're not starting from zero. Uh, but I'd love for you to help us think about this challenge and, and how you're, um, finding solutions for it.
Dawn: Yeah. Thank you. So it definitely is a challenge, I think, when you think about the world of luxury skincare or alter. Ultra luxury skincare. Packaging is definitely an important factor to it, and typically [00:02:00] weight, size, aesthetic, um, of the packaging has a lot to do with the, the perception of how luxurious it is in price positioning.
I. What we're seeing now is the consumer has really shifted, uh, their mindset a little bit away from that, where the bulkier and heavier packaging doesn't necessarily to them resonate with if it's luxury or worth the price positioning, and it's really about formulations and efficacy. But I think there is still this big challenge because brands that are legacy brands like ourselves really did grow up in that mindset of the packaging as part of the brand perception or positioning.
Retailers also have actually spun that narrative, let's be honest, where they're looking for that aesthetic, but the consumer is less likely interested in that piece of it and more interested in the effic efficacious of the product and the value the product gives to them. But it's also globally very, um, [00:03:00] interesting because as you go into, you know, GCC and the UAE area, and the perception might be that the packaging is heavier, bigger is more locks, or their bathrooms, let's be honest, are bigger.
As you hit into some of their Asia markets, the where they live and how their, their, their bathroom aesthetic is maybe smaller, they're less concerned about that. And then in the North America region, um, it's kind of both. So. Packaging is difficult from a positioning standpoint. Legacy brands are challenged because we're trying to accelerate faster than the consum as fast as the consumer wants us to.
The packaging suppliers haven't caught up to where you could provide lux and at the same time look su and be sustainable and, and efficacious and recyclable. Um, so there's this, you're, like you said, there's this kind of oxymoron that we're really struggling to, to kind of find solutions for.
Deanna: No, and I, I appreciate that you mentioned different markets, right? Because there is certainly different expectations and, and also. [00:04:00] You're mentioning people's, people's bathrooms or the vanities where they're using these products. It really suggests that there are differences in how consumers experience a product. Um, of course, you know, these ideas, um, of weight. You mentioned conventional retail, you know, so we have shelf appeal, we have, uh, you know, online retail appeal, uh, as well. But help us think a little bit more about sort of the consumer's experience of using a product and then how that can be translated into, into packaging or labeling for sustainability or even other, other purposes.
I.
Dawn: I mean, I think, well, you know, years ago we were less globally traveled than we are now. So if you think about. The customer as it is now, we travel more so just in sense of travel. High luxury packaging that's heavy or bigger or bulkier is not travel friendly. Number one. Two is, the other thing with that is the consumer's usage of, and, and when you look at your European especially, that's leading [00:05:00] the way in sustainability.
They want something that is more recyclable or sustainable. Um, they care more about that and formulations than they do pretty much the bulky packaging. I think the other thing that when you talk about packaging is I. When you start to look at sustainable packaging or packaging, that is not in the traditional sense of what we've been working with as legacy brands.
We have to think about formulation. Does the formulation also, uh, can it work in this type of packaging? Can it be stable? Do we have to put extra preservatives in the product to hold stability to it? So it's more than just perception. And then at the end of the day, there's always that marketing consumer perception.
You know, what is the marketers of the world? Or social media telling the consumer that, you know, luxury or bigger is better, heavier is better. Um, you know, cross, cross industry is like the spirits industry. They're also in the same situation we're in, where we look at these beautiful [00:06:00] bottles of wine or, or you know, spirits.
And usually the heavier, more deco, same thing.
Deanna: Mm-hmm.
Dawn: Uh, we're definitely very challenged in that way, but the fact that TR consumers are traveling more than ever before in history, packaging is not meeting those demands and it has to.
Deanna: Yeah. No. And you, you mentioned the spirits industry. Are you seeing any categories maybe in, you know, in any industry where they're successfully transitioning luxury away from that? You know, weight is luxury, um, you know. Excessive deco, if I may forgive
the word excessive, but you know that is luxury as well.
Is there
sort of a more economical luxury somewhere?
Dawn: I think we're seeing it. I see it a little bit more in the handbag section, you know, and handbag used to be like heavier, thicker, heavy leather, the. The handbag industry has done a good job of creating luxury design, luxury materials that are a little bit more efficacious. I mean sustainable, excuse me, and not so heavy, [00:07:00] not so bulky.
I think also in home, which is part of sometimes the beauty. You know, I think of a candle company that's at Neiman's right now, and they're making their packaging at a luxury mushroom, so that's actually really great because it's sustainable and it's still like this amazing design element that's so gorgeous.
You want it in your. Your home. And at the same time, they're really resonating with lightweight but more sustainable material. So you're seeing it in parts of home design. You're seeing it in parts of fashion. Uh, but we have a long way to go.
Deanna: Mm-hmm. And you know, to think about that example a little bit too, right? Mushroom isn't something that's terribly prevalent, right?
So the fact that it's a little bit more, um. Outside the norm would suggest luxury as well. A little bit, in some ways less accessible because
it's just less less readily available.
You mentioned too that, um, whether we like it or not, suppliers might not have caught up to this, uh, need that brands have for more sustainable luxury packaging. What are you looking for? What, what's the next [00:08:00] step as they're trying to catch up? What, what, what should we be seeing in the marketplace?
Dawn: I think, you know, for us, at our volume of brands, you know, we're, we always look to the big portfolio brands, you know, the Unilevers, the Lauders, the L'Oreals of the world, but truly have the sheer volume and capital to make these big changes. And they really can push the packaging suppliers to do better because of the sheer mass volume and investment.
But I think we're all looking for better ways to be, uh, sustainable and still ensure that our pro products are protected, whether it's travel friendly or formulation friendly, or whatever it is, without having to put any nasties in the product. We all wanna do better by the consumer. But at the same time, we're also trying to find solutions regionally.
You know, we all say we wanna be sustainable, but sustainability is such a broad word in if you're in China versus Hong Kong, versus Alabama versus London. That's the way you recycle. Product is vastly different and the regulations are [00:09:00] vastly different. And so for, for brands that are global, we have to think about like what's the most common way we can do this so the consumer can do the least amount of work and still be able to participate in sustainability.
How we can get the packaging suppliers to give us good alternatives at a reasonable price. New brands or smaller brands or mid-tier brands don't have the capital to invest in mushroom packaging. That's very rare. Or PLA, which is compostable starch. They don't have the sometimes the capital or do they?
Do they wanna raise the price on the consumer to hit that number? At the end of the day, it all comes down to cost of goods and ultimately the price that's the consumer's pocket. So if we can find our suppliers can find a better way to make reasonably priced, uh, sustainable packaging. Um, and if it did exist, uh, to where we want it to be, the big portfolios would already be doing it.
So we already know there's a challenge [00:10:00] 'cause they're, they're the leaders in innovation that.
Deanna: Yeah, no, it's, it's an excellent point, right? Our, our industry is fully global, but the, the markets are certainly not universal. With sustainability or, or many other topics for sure. Um, you know, you've, you've mentioned to me in an earlier conversation this concept of, of being transparent with a brand's customer and, and how that sort of impacts the decisions you're making. I'm wondering what transparency looks like at borgese. What information do you share with your customer and, and how do you share it?
Dawn: Yeah, I mean, there's no doubt that we're not a hundred percent where we wanna be. Uh, we have a mission to be sustainable and, and still consider, um, we will not forego our efficacious products. Our products have a, a long history of reputation. I mean, we've been around since 1957. So our customers and our reputation is hold true to itself, but we're not anywhere near we wanna be.
What we're doing is making changes as we have that o options. So if we have an option to change the formula to make it more, uh, clean it [00:11:00] up a little bit or more eff uh, more sustainable, we will do that. If we can change our packaging into more recyclable or glass form, we will reducing cartons. You know, one of our number one skews is our cleanser.
It comes in a carton. Does it need to have a carton? Do we need extra packaging? So when we can make those changes, we are making them, um, month over month or year over year. It's not gonna happen overnight. It's taking us a while because we have to obviously do it in a process, but we're trying to be transparent.
I mean, we, I. Let's try. We are being transparent about it. I read every single comment and customers have come back and said, why is this formula slightly pinker than it used to be? Or, why is this scent slightly different? And I literally personally write them an email and say, we took out this ingredient because it wasn't sustainable, or it was a raw material that was discontinued or not, uh, cleaner than we'd like it to be.
The packaging we're putting in it now is a glass recyclable form versus a plastic. So we're trying to tell them the why behind it. Hopefully they'll accept it. But at the end of the day, I think [00:12:00] if they're part of the mission of what we're trying to do, then I think they're more accepting of it. But we are very transparent that by no means are we there yet.
But we do try to, we do tell them the why. We've made changes on things.
Deanna: Yeah, and, and you're explaining that really emphasizes the fact that. The consumer has to literally buy into any change that happens, don't they? They have to accept a new packaging design. They have to accept a new product formula, perhaps a new size, you know, or volume of product. Can you say more about that, that piece of the conversation?
Do you.
Dawn: Yeah, I mean, I give you the most recent example actually. So Fango, which is our number one s skew, it's our iconic mud that has been around for 40 years, comes in a glass jar, which is beautiful and actually was way ahead of its time, actually. It was in this glass kind of mason jar before people were talking about it.
But we made a travel size years ago of a 2.7 ounce jar. What we started hearing from the consumer is it's not travel friendly. It's [00:13:00] bulky. Even as a consumer that's maybe more mature, twisting, the cap was a little bit more cumbersome. It didn't fit into their package, their suitcase when they traveled, so we put it into a tube.
While the tube never looks as luxe, I'll be honest, you know, tubes don't look as luxurious as jars. It's the right thing to do because the consumer wanted it in the tube. The consumer wanted it travel friendly. It's also less packaging. Less waste, uh, easier for the product and travel friendly. And that was kind of the explanation behind it and why we did it.
But we let the consumer be the voice of why we did that.
Deanna: So it's, it's not quite transparency, but it's a little bit about, um, a clear communication, if you will. Again, for, for listeners who might not be familiar with, uh, the Borgese brand, um, it is Italian inspired, uh, but it's, I believe, based in the US I'm hoping you can tell us, um, a bit about the brand, but also help us think about. What's happening sort of in your market [00:14:00] tier right now? What do you see in your competitor space? What's, um, what's exciting at this, at this level of skincare,
Dawn: So, uh, thank you. Is Italian a heritage brand? We manufacture, uh, luckily enough for us currently in 2025 at this state we manufacture. Majority of our products in the US uh, a year ago, I might not have said that, uh, with a big smile on my face concerning what's happening globally with the economic challenges.
But we do manufacture some of our products in Italy and then some of 'em in, uh, South Korea for innovation. Uh, what we're seeing in the competitive space for us is really, which was, is really making us very proud, is this minimalist skincare maximum results. So we're starting to see consumers want. Less products, but better results from their products.
So really multifunction products. And for Esei, that was really the kind of the, the founding, uh, pillars of the brand from the beginning with Princess [00:15:00] Marcello who founded the brand. And so we're continuing to stay true to that when we created product that's new, newer, unique. Uh, or even Fango for instance.
We wanna make sure that it can do more than one thing, and we're also really focused on the gift of time. I think that's our point of difference. For Gaze is about giving you back time. So our products are five to 15 minutes, like our fango, you put on for five minutes, you take it off. Um, we wanna give you back time.
And I think that's really luckily for us, we're seeing the consumer really want time as a commodity and they don't wanna use 12 to 15 steps. They wanna keep it simple, efficacious, and fast for it to work.
Deanna: No, that's, that's really interesting too to sort of compare and contrast what we've seen in, in previous years, especially you mentioned, um, using some of the innovative manufacturing that's available in Asia. Um, some of the, the Asian skincare routines, um, have been quite multi-step, time [00:16:00] consuming. Um, you know, what, what, what's been promoted in recent years.
So it's interesting to sort of see that contrast and, and to think, um. We were thinking about luxury packaging and, and those sorts of details earlier, but thinking about other sorts of luxuries and certainly time is, is probably the ultimate one. They always say it's, it's the one currency. You don't know how much you have as you're spending.
So I think that's, yeah,
Dawn: Yeah, I mean for us that for us luxury. Borgese is the gift of time. Um, it's not about bulky packaging or, or, or, you know, we don't spend a lot of money in our packaging. We spend what we need to to give it the aesthetic, but we don't overspend on packaging. You're paying for formulations and science, science is expensive.
Um, and, but we are really about efficacious. We really want the products to be five minutes, work in five minutes, see results high clinicals. So that's where we really invest and that's what we share with the consumer.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's excellent. And I don't often ask guests about this, um, you know, but I, I [00:17:00] believe that, uh, you were at cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna and that, and that this year, 2025 was your first year attending the event. Um. You have such a, a fantastic role with your company and a unique perspective on the industry. Um, I'm, I'm wondering if you can help us think about the value of attending a show like that and, and particularly for other sort of brand leaders at, at your level and, and maybe coming from the us. Uh, what's going on there that's that's worthwhile?
Dawn: Actually, I'm glad you asked. I, uh, was really taken back by causes of profit. First of all, it's very, very well done. You can literally see any part of the industry you wanna see there. And as a leader, uh, of a company that really is trying to move. The brand into continued innovation, but at the Legacy brand, really look for solutions and what's new.
You could see it there. What I thought was interesting about Casa Pro and be be honest, you have to really understand how to organize yourself there. 'cause it's everything but every [00:18:00] country. Every country, every manufacturer, supplier, raw material, packaging, innovation machines. What was great is that to be able to spend time three days and to be able to see where innovation's going, where materials are going, where ingredients are going, helps me as a leader of an organization be able to solve for, solve for problems and challenges that I've been seeing with us.
Be able to. Look forward on our three to five year roadmap and see what we can do to improve and come back to our teams and have great solutions. I was really, I thought Co of profit was amazing. I, it's very overwhelming. Um, but it is really a way that's to see what's happening in the world. Because sometimes I think we continue to be regionally siloed even as leaders, whether we're, and we're a global company obviously, you know, China and Hong Kong are a huge part of our market.
South Africa, we just launched, but. Cos allows you to see it's really the window to the world with innovation is really, [00:19:00] really well done. Now I'm gonna, now I'm gonna go to Vegas. I'm gonna keep going. Cosmoprof.
Deanna: Yeah, yeah. No, there's so much to discover and I, I really appreciate your sharing it. I think it, I, I hope it's, it's useful information for, like, I suggested other brand leaders, uh, you know, some of the, the listeners have been with us now for, for a full year. Um, I wanna just take a moment, um, as, as we are moving into our second year of episodes here on CosmoFactory, to thank everyone listening today, whether it's.
It's your first time or, or you're with us every week. Um, we did talk a bit, uh, in, in today's conversation about packaging design and sustainability upfront. If, if that's a topic that's of interest to you, I would encourage you to scroll through the archive and listen to the conversation I had with Revlon.
It's one of the, the very early episodes, but we focus quite a bit on packaging, engineering and some of these, these ideas, um, in a, from a different perspective. And of course, Dawn, I very much want to thank you for sharing your knowledge and your perspective with us here today on the Cosmo Factory Podcast.
Thank you so much.
Dawn: Thank you. It was my pleasure. [00:20:00]