COSMOFACTORY

91 - From Brand Strategy to Consumer Demand, featuring EO Products Co-CEO Susan Griffin-Black
Deanna: [00:00:00] This episode is about the dynamics of consumer preferences. It's about public understanding of sustainable beauty, about brand building and responsibility. And it's about plants, people, fragrance, and more For today's episode of the Cosmo Factory Podcast, I am speaking with Susan Griffin, black founder and co CEO at EO products.
Susan, welcome to CosmoFactory.
Susan: Thank you and thanks so much for having me. I'm, [00:01:00] I'm so happy to be here.
Deanna: You're welcome. I'm happy that you are here. To get started, I want to let our listeners, uh, who may not be familiar with EO products, know that the brand has been in business for over 30 years. It's an independent personal care brand, uh, based in California EO products, retails, and tell me if I have this wrong.
Uh, the brand retails in over 10 countries. Uh, you have shared the CEO role since day one. I'm hoping that you'll start us off by adding even more context, if you would, uh, please say something about what the business looks like today, as well as how it compares with the beginnings of EO products.
Susan: Sure. Um, well today we, uh, are located in Marin County still. That's our, you know, where we started, uh, making products. And actually it may be in San Francisco for a bit. Um, and we are 118 strong and we [00:02:00] make all of our products ourselves. And we started doing that really from the beginning because we couldn't find contract manufacturers.
That would make few enough, you know, because we were always strapped for cash and then also make to our specifications because we wanted to make, if we made a foaming product, we wanted to make it without sodium oral sulfate, which was the prevalent, you know, uh, soap product at that time. So a lot has happened over these 30 years in the market and uh, and with us, my background was, uh, I was a clothing designer.
I worked, the last uh, company I worked for was at Esprit for the late Doug Tompkins. And I was really, that, that was a portal for me of understanding. How we made things [00:03:00] because he was very interested along with his longtime friend, Yvan and other environmentalists who were sort of up and coming at the time with the harm that we were causing in the making of things and could it, could we do it differently?
And so that was the very beginning of organic cotton and so forth. And then when I really started to look at the interdependence between. How we grow things, how we make things. It was a very natural progression. He sold the company I left about six months after he sold, and I was wandering around London a little bit before that on a buying trip for a spree.
And I came across this little apothecary, um, called Neil's Yard Remedies, and upstairs they had. A Homeopathist, aromatherapist, all [00:04:00] sorts of sort of alt practitioners. And they made the medicines and filled the prescriptions in this little shop. And I walked in and the smell is unforgettable. And I was like, oh my God, this smells amazing.
Where am I? And I picked up a little bottle of lavender essential oil, lavender and gua folia. And. I was just so totally entranced and I was like, yeah, this is what I wanna do. So I just started, you know, figuring everything out about it and studying aromatherapy and took a crash course in cosmetic chemistry.
And EO really came out of a private label project that was launched in 1995 in the Bloomingdale's holiday catalog. I had a lot of those connections from, you know, being in the fashion world for 15 years. And [00:05:00] so, you know, it was like we, I did these blends, these four blends, Bloomingdale's in conjunction with the buyer at Bloomingdale's.
And then it was like, okay, well what's next? And you know, the logo was very simple. I sat next to my friend who worked for Apple, and as we started developing mostly products that we could make ourselves and, and were, uh, started to get very familiar with. Essential oil distributors mostly. You know, we, we've had a few stints in trying to distill our own.
Uh, we used to grow rose uranium at Green Gs and, you know, see if we could do a special product around that. But, uh, we're we're plenty vertical and being that much more vertical that way, we certainly didn't have the expertise and the resources. To do that as well, although we love that part of that business very much.
And my [00:06:00] partner Brad, travels quite a bit to all of the farms and growers and distillers, you know, that we've used and had relationships with over the years. I.
Deanna: Mm-hmm. And as, as I mentioned, you're several decades into this brand. Um, and, and you suggested, um, or stated rather, that you're still manufacturing products on your own. Is that correct? Yeah. So I'm curious, um, sort of at this stage in your business, um. To, to really hear about the machinery that you've purchased, that you're working with.
Um, 'cause that's an important piece of the supply chain that, um, is quite fascinating once you get into it. But not, not everyone is thinking about it, especially if they're starting at a very small scale. Can you, can you give us a sense of, of the sort of equipment you have in your facility and, and how and where you acquired that?
Susan: Yes. This is not my area of expertise, but I'll walk you through it sort of from my point of view, which I think [00:07:00] will, might be interesting. Right. Um, so I started, uh, we made products by hand in beakers right? And pouring, hand pouring. I got a private label order from Birkenstock for a little gift with purchase foot care kit that had a foot oil in it.
And foot sos a little foot soak in a craft box that we hand stamped. And I had, we had to make 10,000 in a relatively short amount of time, and Brad, who I knew at the time he was in the clothing business, came down and he said, you're never gonna be able to hand pour this and that. And then he, he ated this little gravity feed system.
He had me at Gravity feed. Really? You know, and. So that gravity feed turned into a simplex filler machine. Everything else was manual. That turned [00:08:00] into, you know, automated filling that turned into four bottle automated filling.
It's been a, uh, progression based on where the strength. Of the products and our business sort of led us. So it's been pretty organic with the exception of in 1999, we bought a small private label manufacturer that had been in business for a long time that happened to be in Marin. And from there we, you know, we had a much different level of capacity because they had some customers.
So that came with. A chemist, you know, two lines, a full on thousand gallon tank. And then we had to learn and they stayed long enough to, you know, for the transition to sort of teach us what it was like to scale at that point. Although then that created, of course, other problems. 'cause we, our [00:09:00] revenue didn't match our capacity.
Right. So, and as we all know, you know, that's fits and starts over time. And, and also, um, we have had to be very sort of scrappy and expert at using the space that we have because we've avoided moving now, we moved once and we've been in this space for, you know, eight years, and we would like to kind of keep going here.
So we've got three buildings. And we bought a building. And so we've got a little campus situation and we're just investing in, um, some auto filling equipment for hand sanitizers, which, um, is a custom, uh, arrangement. And we're working with a, a local company, local US company to make that happen in also Canada and hopefully tariffs.
Well, you know, we [00:10:00] don't know at this point. And, um, and so we just, we make our way based upon what's actually happening without trying to get too far ahead of ourselves. Of course.
Deanna: Yeah. No, that makes very good sense. And thank you for sharing that. You know, Susan, you and I had a, a very nice conversation quite early in the new year, uh, and something with was comment you made. About consumer decision making or um, maybe it was about consumer acquisition. We were talking about the demand for sustainable beauty, and you seem to be saying that it's not so much about convincing consumers to buy sustainable products, but rather sharing information and providing options.
You told me that you are in a way asking the consumer, do you want this? Or that, and I'm, I'm curious to hear what the phrase this or that represents. I'm hoping you can say more about the choice that a brand like yours is offering consumers.[00:11:00]
Susan: Yes. Um, the, I think the essence of what started the conversation then where it sort of, uh, meandered to was, um, you know, essential oils are really the heart and soul of, of what makes our products different. And I, I think I used the example of a real rose and a fake rose. You know, if you put them 10 feet away, they do a great job with artificial flowers.
Now you might not be able to tell the difference, and you might think that's more beautiful than the real roses. You know, that you just pick from your garden and as you move closer, whether it's plastic or silk or whatever, that. You know, it has no life force right in the railroads at whatever stage it's in.
From a beauty and aesthetic point of view, even if it's the pedals are falling off and you know, it's as beautifully flawed as life is, you know that [00:12:00] our appreciation for that exchange and that reciprocity in our relationship with nature is reflected. In the why and how we use essential oils for all of our formulations.
Wow. So then it's a matter of education to say, do you want this or that? You know, if you want this, choose this. But we, we want you to have the information to make the choice and. People don't read and people don't want to take the time necessarily. when Whole Foods started and, and, and the natural products market was emerging, that was because they had trust in all of those retailers who were helping curate and edit and make those decisions for. And now, you know, it's a free for all in terms of where you get information that is helpful for you to make a decision. So our job in some ways [00:13:00] is much more difficult and also much easier because of the development and the scale of, you know, where the natural products exists.
Deanna: Hmm. No, that makes good sense. Um. We've talked a bit about supply chain details, right? You've created your own manufacturing system, um, or, or facility and capabilities, which is, which is fantastic. Um, but we hear a lot on Cosmo Factory about the importance of relationships and particularly. Supply chain partnerships.
I'm, I'm curious to hear, um, your experience as a smaller brand and one that it seems to me you really had no intention of scaling rapidly or positioning for acquisition. I'm wondering how you identify suppliers, how you develop constructive partnerships with a brand that, you know, in all fairness, has always been dealing in relatively small volumes.
Susan: Yes. Um, I think that's true until we started everyone, you know, in 2012
Deanna: Right, which is a second brand that [00:14:00] your
Susan: Yes. And we really used the same. Charter, except the difference was we were able to now make more accessible products by using less expensive or the least expensive essential oils. So we didn't have to deviate from that.
And then less sophisticated formulas in terms of, you know, uh, additives and botanical actives and so forth. So, so that opened up, uh, the. The volume for bettering our sup and reciprocity with our supply chain. So, for example, you know, our a hundred percent, uh, post-consumer resin bottles, we have worked with a, a local Southern California manufacturer for many, many years.
And that relationship may have started with EO back in the day, but it's [00:15:00] developed in a way where we can. Come together to say, well, this is most important. We gotta do a hundred percent, not 80%. Or, you know, working with pump manufacturers and, you know, closure manufacturers on how much of this can be recyclable.
You know, how can we refill that makes, and in a way that makes it easier for consumers without, uh, creating the demand on us. To come up with a refill system, you know, and we worked with wonderful. And we had a little retail store where, where we've done all sorts of experimentation, you know. But the thing is that our relationships, uh, with our suppliers and all of our stakeholders really are, um, a priority in terms of.
Uh, really listening to each other and reciprocity [00:16:00] and figuring out the best way to work together. I mean, we had some, you know, a, a real, uh, downturn after COVID and, and, you know, being in the hand sanitizer business as, as we all did. And it was because of our relationship with our suppliers that we were able to get through that, you know, inventory. Uh, situation it was most difficult, but, you know, because we've been in the around for a long time and we're as dedicated as ever to turn it around, you know, that was essentially suppliers and a, a couple, you know, really became our bank for. As long as they could. And we understood that and, and worked together very closely about that.
You know, and also that it just, that that longevity and that relationship is key in, in really in, in life, in everything. [00:17:00] And when that's a, you know, a primary value, kindness, respect, relationship. Good communication, you know, listening and you bring things down to this, the most human level of how do we navigate this?
Not posturing, but you know, what is really possible and what can we both do for the best outcome for all of us, you know, then. That's sort of like a value and a skill I think, you know, that develops over years and you get better at it, and it becomes ever more important.
Deanna: Sure, sure. No, that's wonderful to hear. You know, and, and you mentioned packaging briefly there. I know, um, I use the expression, sort of sustainable sourcing frequently. I believe. I've heard you talk about responsible sourcing, um, which is a very nice way to phrase it. I'm, I'm hoping you can share a little bit more about how you handle sustainability.
And I, I think you. [00:18:00] Um, have made a, a company decision about, um, plastic neutrality. That might be a, a good example to share with us.
Susan: Yes. In, um, 1990 friends of mine wrote this book called Paper or Plastic, these Friends from Esprit. And the, the Debate, even though it's much more quantifiable and we've progressed in a lot of ways, in a lot of ways we haven't, because there's so many factors that go into packaging and it's such an integral part of what we do.
We've always opted for using. More stock packaging, although it gets specialized perhaps by size because our formulas are expensive. And so, and our design idea and ideal is really quite simple. And so, you know, we were sort of the first to be in the marketplace. In natural without a leaf or a flower or, you know, uh, [00:19:00] it's so, you know, we've, we took a very different sort of point of view from a design position, you know, early on.
And then as we progressed, it was very important to do as little harm as possible and keep that in mind with how we made things. And, you know, this came directly from my experience. Working at Espree for that year of, well, you know, how do you really handle waste because there's so much of it and you know, how do we become zero waste?
We're a B Corp and I think that's great. Um, in that there's a community around each other that's conversing around. How to do it better, how to do it in a, in a responsible way, in a, you know, environmentally and energetically and so forth. Um, so plastic neutrality is something that we've always aspired to.
And, [00:20:00] um. I can't give you a date because it's an ever changing, an ever changing world. It's like, yes, we're gonna do this by this, but then we always have to, you know, it's, it's a very imperfect process that always requires paying attention to the next thing. Or is that right? Are they saying that right?
And is that really true? You know, so much greenwashing over these years because there's so much economic opportunity. Even if it's for a short time, then you can extract, you know, then okay, then it didn't work and you know, hundreds of millions of dollars were wasted. Somebody made money somewhere, hopefully, and you know, and life goes on.
So we've been very mindful about is it sustainable? Really, not really, because what, what we're doing is. It's sustainable socially from a social impact point of view. It's sustainable economically. We feel like, you know, we make a beautiful and [00:21:00] better for you product. And all of that is, has purpose and heart and meaning, uh, on the environmental side.
You know, it's, it's a, a constant. Work to balance out what it is that we're doing with the harm that we're causing and the equation of, you know, making sure that, uh, we're doing our best.
Deanna: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No,
Susan: and it's a, it's a tall order, you know, it is.
Deanna: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I, I certainly appreciate your candor there. I, I have to say, Susan, your work is clearly filled with purpose and with passion, both attributes that I know so many, uh, people in our industry resonate with. It was really great hearing from you today, and I, I thank you for being my guest on Cosmo Factory.
Susan: Thank you so much for having me. It was a real pleasure and uh, hope to see you soon.
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