COSMOFACTORY

This transcript has been automatically generated.
Deanna: [00:00:00] In this episode, we're talking about biotech ingredient development, about cell culture technology, about biodiversity in Chile, about international partnerships, and ingredient pricing strategy. Joining me podcast today is José Pablo García, co founder and CEO of Rubisco Biotechnology.
Deanna: Welcome.
José: Oh, thank you, Deanna. It's a pleasure for us and an honor to be in your podcast as we see you as a reference [00:01:00] in the industry, always reviewing and commenting on new and hot trends from all around the world. We are an excellent, excellent example as we are in far, far from everywhere in Chile, and we are very happy to be in your, in your show.
Deanna: excellent. I'm so glad you're here as well. Um, so, uh, Rubisco specializes in the research and development of cosmetic actives. Um, but for our listeners who might not yet be familiar with the company, um, can you please introduce Rubisco a bit further?
José: Yeah, for sure. We are a biotech company placed in Chile. We are working with cell culture for the listeners that doesn't get on this. What we do is a big platform from the selection of any species that is from interest. We take a small little piece of it to the laboratory. Where [00:02:00] are, where our scientifics make the magic.
José: So given the right media to these small pieces of the species, we can make a reproduction of it in a cellular way that, uh, after some process, um, we can make the, to scale it up to, to industrial quantities. So we can, after that. Uh, put the active ingredients in the commercial phase where where we have our different partners partners around the world so they can make the distribution of it.
José: So we're very glad that we have the like the platform from beginning to end. And we think that everybody should be jumping on this kind of biotech in the production of active ingredients.
Deanna: Yeah, yeah. No, it's definitely very exciting technology. And, um, I'm just [00:03:00] going to mention for folks listening that you and I are recording our conversation in early July. It'll probably be a bit later when they're listening in. Um, but I think it was just this month or maybe late last month that you told me you moved into new offices and lab facilities.
Deanna: How's that?
José: Yes, just two weeks ago, we are now in a, in a bigger facility. Well, that's the, the, the, the roadmap of any startup. At the beginning, we, we, we begin in a, in a co work or what we was maybe more than a co work. It was a, uh, a laboratory that, that used to have, uh, different startups. Then we moved to, uh, another facility that was, uh, smaller.
José: Uh, we were there for around one year, year and a half Now we moved to a, a bigger place where we are putting together. The r and d uh, area where we make all the development and the research, of course, with the [00:04:00] production, uh, machines. So we have everything inside the same place. So we, we, we are looking how everything is developing, uh, and we can take care of it in, in the most professional way.
Deanna: Great. Great. I love it. So, um, in preparing for our interview today, I learned that Chile actually has multiple climates throughout the country and the country includes, uh, I believe it's like 6, 000 kilometers and that's, 3700 miles maybe of coastline along the South Pacific Ocean and the coastline of your country actually continues around the tip of, um, South America.
Deanna: So around the southern tip of the continent, making Chile the southern most country in the world. Um, I am a little shy to admit it, but I did not know this. Um, but considering the country's, uh, diversity of climates, um, and, and the landmass that it covers, um, north to south, really, I'm hoping that you can now tell us about the types of unique plant species that you're working with at Rubisco [00:05:00] Biotechnology.
Deanna: What, what sorts of plant life is available there in Chile?
José: Yeah, that's something amazing. And we believe that for sure, several countries have has amazing different species. But we are privileged over here. As you said, we have a narrow and very, very long country. We even have a big piece of the Antartica, the Antarctic from the Arctic. So we That is a amazing over there.
José: So, uh, we we have, as you said, this long, very long cost costs and he's very near to the mountains. So, so in between, we have forests, a lot of biodiversity and, uh, moving a little further further on that. Uh, we have been choosing a very specific and special, uh, species from, from Chile, for instance. Uh, the first one we started to work is the
José: That is a [00:06:00] magnificent, uh, tree is the oldest living species in the history of the, of the world. So it's so crazy. Is the, the oldest one called the, the, it is, uh, the big abuelo or the grand grandfather. It has 5, 500 years. Imagine how old it is that the pyramids were just beginning to be built and this old tree was already 1, 000 years.
José: This is, it's very crazy. And, uh, uh, this, this, uh, magnificent species is very protected. So the only way to, to take. Some of its benefits is through alternative process, and one of them is the cell culture. So once we took a small little piece of data, we took it from the ground and take it from, we took it to the, to the lab, and we manage after a lot of time.
José: to reproduce it in the lab [00:07:00] with the, with, with these benefits and which one of it is that it has a very strong, um, benefit on the region, the regeneration of the skin. So kind of, we are, Hacking the nature to bring this magnificent benefits to our commercial ingredients. So we are very happy to do it and protecting the species as we only have to use it once and from a small little piece of it.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's amazing. Um, can you say a little bit more about this ingredient that you've developed using the Alerce tree? What more of the benefits are and have you developed some product prototypes as well to help formulators start working with it?
José: Yes, yes. Uh, we already launched, uh, this product, uh, with one of our partners in, in, in Spain. Uh, [00:08:00] we did it in, in Paris last year. Eh, there are several, eh, trademarks that are using it. Eh, one of them is Coco is inside Sephora. Also Fri beats in South Korea, uh, one month ago, uh, CIO Carrasco is a, a famous celebrity from Spain.
José: She launched, uh, her own, uh, cosmetic full line just from Frome. Uh, and apart from, uh, making, because it's at the end of the day, it's an anti-wrinkle. It gives the anti-wrinkle effect, but also it prevents the damage. Uh. Caused by the blue lights that you know for sure that right now we are everybody is with the phone with the computers the tv and we don't know but the the damage caused by the blue lights is very harmful but uh but as we have [00:09:00] a This, these different devices in our everyday, uh, we don't see it.
José: So it's very important to, to be taking care of that and wither, for instance, you have a hundred percent, eh, of, uh, coverage, eh, through for, for the blue light. But, uh, but small, more important of it or the best benefit is the anti-wrinkle effect. And being, uh, a natural, uh, product, uh, right now is going very good.
José: And we're very happy, uh, for, for what we're doing. Um,
Deanna: Yeah.
José: just, just can say on that, that all the production that we are making, uh, right now is, uh, already sold, being sold, uh, in months in advance. So, it's like, We have to see how we push the, uh, our limits on, on making more production. That is what we are doing right now in this new [00:10:00] laboratory.
José: Uh, we, we moved two weeks ago.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. That makes, that makes very good sense. That's a nice challenge to have. I'm sure. Um, can you talk about some of the other plant species from Chile that you're working with? Anything you can share?
José: yes, yes. Of course. Yes. We have a portfolio that is right now with more than 20 species, but, uh, the The five ones that we have already present and already a been accept some of the patents are the other say that is this a magnificent tree. Also the Mikey, that is, and one of the berries. That has the most antioxidant power, uh, around all the berries.
José: For instance, other ones that are, uh, very known as the goji. This is like, uh, 40 times more, eh, uh, powerful than the goji or, or if you go to Brazil in the aca acaai, uh, this is, uh, [00:11:00] 50 times more powerful than that. So it is, um, very good to, to be, to, to have the opportunity. To take, uh, the, the benefits of, of this species and take the, this antioxidant, uh, power to our, the ingredients we are using.
José: Also, uh, we are working with Chiai. Chiai, uh, is a, a, an native tree that only grows in the south of Chile that, eh, right now the, if you go in the, the demand of it. It has a past by far the what the different companies can offer because one of the molecules that can be extracted of this tree. That is the key has a one area.
José: One of the saponins the Q s 21 is being used in different vaccines, mainly the malaria right now. Or the, or, or one or two in the covid that were already [00:12:00] giving thumbs up in the United States. So, uh, everything is like, everybody wants that. So, uh, this is much, uh, more needful to have alternative ways to grow this species.
José: And one of these ones is the cell culture, which we are doing. We have already, uh, make a patent on the use of it. So, uh, we are. Uh, making that push. Also, uh, ika that is, uh, very known, uh, for when you have a bruise and it turns, uh, black. You put that on your skin and it goes down very quick. And, uh, one of the problem that has this, uh, beautiful species, uh, is that, uh, 40% of it, uh, is being produced in, in, in Europe.
José: In here where they all the world is the war is happening between Russia. So right now that production [00:13:00] fell very strong. So again, a alternative way of producing a not the plant, but the benefits of the plants is being very necessary. We already are pushing that by our side, and, uh, we have other species that, uh, as taking, more than taking care, as taking advantage of the way Chile has this long and narrow, we are this long and narrow country.
José: We have also the, the most, uh, a dry desert in the world. And every two years, a small rain goes to this desert. And grows some small plants. And it's a very beautiful spectacle as big parts of the desert turns red. Of this small plant. So we took this plant [00:14:00] and we we we analyze the different benefits that has and it happened that this one is it has an irritation power a very, very, very strong.
José: So we have another ingredient with a very compelling story tell because we're taking this small species from the The most dry desert in the world that has also the most changing from a hot in the day to very cold in the in the night is so we're seeing all also, it can be used for different is sunproof a staff so.
José: Uh, we're taking advantage of whatever it can be. It can be used in a very responsible way
Deanna: Mm hmm. Mm
José: a we are very committed. Uh, this may be sound like cliche phrase, but one of the, uh, visions we have, uh, as being an [00:15:00] entrepreneurship in Provisco is try to live a better future for for next generations for for my own kids.
José: Uh, I want them to be, uh, to have the opportunity to watch everything we are doing. So, uh, with this, uh, biotech platform, uh, we are a pushing, um, we think we are contributing at least in a, in a small way, but, uh, we are doing it. So we are very happy with that.
Deanna: Yeah. Thank you. And, of course, there are more than, you know, there's more than one type of biotechnology used to develop ingredients for cosmetic and personal care product formulations. Obviously, um, as you've shared many times, you're working with the cell culture technology. And I know to do that, you need, uh, what we think of as a cell culture medium.
Deanna: So, um. Some sort of material, um, if you will, that, that lets you grow these cells in a lab or in the ingredient production facility. Can you say a little bit more about that, that piece of the technology and what you've developed?[00:16:00]
José: Yeah. Well, that's something very, very cool and good that you have asked because, uh, in the last. Three weeks. We just, uh, got to know that we were working with, uh, with a very specific media that can be used in multiple species and, uh, that we were making an enrichment of the cells. Usually you usually if you want to do, uh, a very good through throughput of the species in this, uh, biotech platform, you have to use a specific media.
José: Uh, with different, um, with different food, if we can say it that way, uh, for the cells, but, uh, we have got, uh, one that, uh, now we're seeing that is producing almost the same effect of enrichment. In, in each species we are working. And, uh, and now we are, uh, [00:17:00] presenting, uh, a, a patent on that. Uh, as, uh, we want to, to make like a, a, a, a full, like an umbrella where we have, uh, from one side the final ingredients where we are projecting the use of it.
José: And by the other side, uh, we are patenting, uh, some medias. That are giving this amazing enrichment of the different cells.
José: what is also as we are always not as powerful as you do, but we are making our own reviewing. We review what the different players around the world are doing. And for instance. Uh, two years ago, L'Oreal, that is the, the biggest player, uh, in the industry. They make this, uh, this, this excellent, uh, fat that, uh, we love.
José: And they say that by 2030 100% of all the biobased [00:18:00] ingredients will be traceable and will come from sustainable source. Just with no link to deforestation. And we know that right now only 50 percent of the ingredient that goes in that part. They don't do it. They don't have that. So, uh, this is something for all your all of your listeners and reviewers.
José: But for sure, there are a lot of companies that are producing and everybody for sure knows this. So, uh, to be, uh, pursuing, uh, alternative, uh, ways to produce the similar or, or the, the, the ingredients that right now are being sell, sold, sell, uh, um, that are produced. In the traditional way, uh, we push them to, to be looking, uh, and trying to, to make, uh, alternative ways that, uh, we take care of the [00:19:00] biodiversity water, uh, cell culture gives, uh.
José: 99 percent of less use of water. That is something amazing
Deanna: that's remarkable.
José: We are for maybe is when we're talking first person, but for us is this is the future. Everybody should be jumping on this in different way. We understand that there are a lot of difficulties, but for big companies. We know, of course, we know that they are working on these, uh, biotechnologies and the sooner they change to more sustainable ways of producing the same ingredients, but because there is, uh, there is not a good way.
José: If you, if you produce something similar that doesn't have the same effect or is what is happening right now, extremely more expensive, because right now there is something very, it's kind of crazy. When you talk on sustainability, all sustainable [00:20:00] products really don't know why are much more expensive.
José: They are even sometimes consider a luxury
Deanna: Yes.
José: very crazy. It should, it should be all the way around. So, um,
Deanna: Yeah. No, let's talk. Let's talk about that pricing a little bit later. Um, I definitely want to, I definitely want to get to it because your, your point is, is super important. Um, but let's think a little bit more about, you mentioned deforestation. Um, and of course, um, a lot, an important aspect of environmental sustainability has to do with, uh, preserving or protecting biodiversity.
Deanna: Can you say a little bit more about how your company's work contributes, uh, to preserving the, the biodiversity? Um, In nature.
José: yes, yes. Uh, this is, uh, more than what we do as a company is that, uh, all the companies that, uh, are working with, uh, alternative methods, one of, one of those for sure are the cell cultures. They, they are some other ones, but this one as, uh, we [00:21:00] only have to, uh, for instance, we, when we talk about the alerts.
Deanna: Yeah.
José: We, we just went one time to the south of Chile to a very, uh, specific place, uh, a specific place that is, uh, where, where, where the gran abuelo is. And, uh, we didn't even touch it. We were looking on the ground where we could find some leaves that have, uh, or branches of the tree, and we took it so. When we are talking about working with cell culture or other alternative biotech processes, we are saying that we, it's not something just in a commercial or marketing way to say, we are really taking care of the biodiversity as we are not touching the nature.
José: We are taking the benefits of it. That what is that is what everybody wants to do. But at the same time, we have to take care of it in a [00:22:00] very, uh, in a very professional way. And for sure, we're not the only one that do this. Yeah. And we push a daily all the other entrepreneurs that are doing something well.
José: Stuff similar to us to to go this way and similar to the same to the big players that we do understand that they have this big machineries that are already built in the natural or the yeah the natural way of of extracting the different uh processes and extracting the different sorry ingredients but we uh we already are pushing them some of them Doesn't like the how hard we push.
José: Uh, but for us is that is the way it has to be. The big players, they are the ones that has to, they have to, to make the change in the
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah.
José: it doesn't adapt this, uh, different [00:23:00] or alternative ways of producing, and nothing is going to happen. But as told before, L'Oreal, they, and we know Unilever also, they are already staying in almost in every webinar or places where they are presenting what they are making this commitment for 2030.
José: And 2030 is at the end of the street, it's at the other side of the street, it's tomorrow.
Deanna: Yes. Yes. No, absolutely. Absolutely. No. Yeah. As, as you've said, the industry needs to make those changes and they're definitely moving in that direction. And, uh, when it might feel like you have competition in the space, that's a good thing too. Um, we've talked several times, quite a lot rather about, uh, native Chilean species that you're working with, but I know you're working with some biotech companies internationally.
Deanna: Can you share a little bit about partnerships that you have?
José: Yes, of course, we are very proud to making making different collaborations around the world. The [00:24:00] startups that doesn't. This is what we believe that doesn't go this way on on looking synergy with other companies that that have that are. Some kilometers ahead of us. It's going to be very difficult to move forward.
José: For instance, some companies I can mention where we're working with Cobiosa. This is a company in Spain. They have 51 years in the industry, in the industry, in the cosmetic industry. They have presence all over 70 countries. So, For us, eh, they are an excellent partner. Also, we're working in Italy with ABRS that they have also, uh, several years working with cell culture and they are sharing with us.
José: We are Uh, making a collaboration. We share with them and they with us in the production of different species. More is more than share some stuff is that, [00:25:00] uh, we know that everybody that is jumping in this, uh, kind of production, they are going to, um, Crash with different problems and the better way to jump these problems is to talk with somebody that has already have them.
José: So we are eager to share this with other companies. For instance, we once a month we are sharing with different companies in South America that are starting with that with this. And they, they, they ask us, uh. One of the classical question is, how do you do with the contamination process? It's like, well, that is, there is nobody in the world, even if you are talking with the biggest player, that they, they want, uh, have this problem because, uh, the vessels you, you use, uh, for growing or the bioreactors, the, the, the steel tanks or whatever they have to be, the more sterile [00:26:00] pro that is.
José: Available and usually that is that doesn't happen. So you start growing something that is this is like Like a baby you you can push push it if although you want Uh, and this is like makes me very anxious It's like I wanted to to this to grow faster but they don't and you don't see also also the contamination as Uh, when you have, uh, lost a lot of time.
José: So, um, but in, in one of the process, uh, we are making in, in this part of the, of the growing process, we are dividing this, that we can share this information with everybody, uh, in, in small vessels. So when we are sure that what we have is scalable, we take the best vessels, eh, that have already produced the, the active ingredient with [00:27:00] the, with the benefits that we are pursuing.
José: That is the one we, we, we, we throw it to, to start on a bigger protection. But that is. It's a process that nobody can jump. It's like, and the most you put your mind on how to get the contamination aside is the better. And we have learned that also from a Sweden company that we have worked with them for several years in vitro plant.
José: Tech a on some scientific from there. Anna Holdforth. That is a great, great partner, a great scientific, and she has already also been teaching us on on how to do it, how to jump a lot of these problems. Um, and last time, uh, Pass or goes by. We have learned on how to do it, and that has given us the opportunity to build our own facilities here in Chile with the [00:28:00] of course, with the help of a this big, um, these big prices from the government where we have to to compete again.
José: Hundreds of other startups. We have been awarded with a lot of money to start building this. Facilities here in Chile and not only be doing it with third party partners from around the world that we are also doing with them. But as part of the process, we believe that is very important to have a from the beginning to the end, at least a all the the.
José: What's the word you have to see how everything is going on so you can see and have the opportunity to tell what you want to do, how you want to do on how much quantities you need to go. And for that, of [00:29:00] course, is not an easy process, but the better understanding of that. Long process, the better understanding of the problems and the better understanding on how to jump above these problems, then you see that it wasn't so, so difficult.
José: Well, I can say that after years and years and years of crashing again, these doors, but right now, we are pushing that in a very nice way, and we are sharing our expertise with everybody that is asking us.
Deanna: Yeah, no, I love that. I think it's very important, as you've said here to not only try to address the challenges within your own company by various sorts of experimentation and scale up strategies, but then collaborating internationally. I think this is so significant throughout the industry, but with biotech innovation as well.
Deanna: So let's go ahead. And wrap our conversation up by thinking about what you were observing earlier, that so much of [00:30:00] what's sustainable in the industry is very expensive. We know that one of the challenges for companies to adopt biotech ingredients, um, has to do with, with the cost. Um, I'm wondering if you can now share a little bit about how Rubisco is addressing this challenge.
Deanna: How are you changing the price of ingredients? What, what can you do about that?
José: Yes, yes, that's as I was talking about before. That's a one of the big issues of working with biotechs company as usually not all of them, of course, are starting on different process. Uh, you try to get all the, all the price, all the costs on, on very few ingredients. So that, that, that ones has to, they have to take care of all your company,
Deanna: Right. So many biotech companies start with a very small portfolio of ingredients. They're relying on those for [00:31:00] their revenue. Yeah, that makes sense.
José: yes, uh, so, uh, as you have little, you have to church on those. We were not able to maintain. But we and we saw that that was a problem because, as we have this very strategic partner that has presence all over the world. We were we could see that and they have hundreds of ingredients. Uh, just the one from us that are biotech a produced through this platform, and we were seeing that.
José: Most of, most of them were, uh, or they were very low price comparing to the ones, the, the first one we took out. And although, uh, it was being sold in a, in a very good way, more than what we could produce, it was they, they have more than 300 clients, but they were just selling to five. For them, [00:32:00] and they couldn't, uh, push it to all of the base because we didn't have more production.
José: And we were like, okay, but what happened? What happened if we push it to everybody? And they were like, okay, this is not gonna happen in a very good way because it's too expensive for them. Okay. But what would happen if we push it? On the replacement side because for instance, Mikey, that is a very antioxidant, a powerful berry.
José: It has its own ingredient right now in the market for for from another very famous company, and we were okay what is the price of that is. Uh, $150. Okay. We are, can we reach that, that, that price? It was like at the beginning. Okay. Uh, it depends. It depends if we put everything, all the, uh, the supply, the internal supply, uh, chain, the production [00:33:00] chain, eh, and we are, uh, the, all the different margins.
José: we are managing by our side. It was, yes, of course we can do, we can, uh, compete with them in the same price. So, and this is what was very, it's happening right now. We launched this one in, in, in Paris, uh, three months ago. It was like, okay, we didn't know what was going to happen. And right now, uh, they are having, uh, a very strong demand of the, this ingredient as they have seen.
José: Okay. We have this, uh, active ingredient that has been produced in the traditional way, taken from the fields. And on the other side, we have this one that has the, not the same, but very similar, uh, benefits and they are at the same price. What is happening? We were like crossing fingers that our strategy was, was going to work.
José: And for sure it worked because it's, for us, it's something very obvious. It's like, If [00:34:00] you have two ingredients that are the same at the same price, which one would you choose? The one that is more sustainable. You're right now for 30 percent of the different clients in the cosmetic industry. This was set this To us, said by L'Oreal also, the sustainability is a buying trigger.
José: So when that is happening, then the companies are like, okay, this is not something that is very sustainable, although they are, they are trying to reach that. But when We start talking about, uh, how they buy, how they sell and how that is going to affect at the end of the, the, at the end of the month, your, your pocket, then they, they were like, okay, now we're talking something else.
José: So if you are able to, to get to the same price that your ingredient, the competition is the ingredient making a traditional way, then. This is a game changer. So, uh, [00:35:00] I said before, we're not the only company in the world that is doing this. There are several that are much more bigger than us. They are producing in bigger quantities.
José: But the difference is, and this is very nice of the biotech, all the biotech companies is that you buy, You make the patent of the ingredient you're working with. So there are hundreds and hundreds of different species on the world, and there are very few that are being produced by two or three or four different biotech companies.
José: So everybody is the 25 to 30 companies that are doing this in the world. They are doing this, but each one is different. focus on their own kind of ingredients because each one has different benefits. So, any of them that, any of them that are listening to us, we are, we, we ask them and push them to, to go, to be, to, to compete with [00:36:00] the, with the ingredient that is making a traditional way are, and for sure you are going to be selling.
José: Your, your quantity in the production is going to explode. The price will go down, but at the end of the day is a, the formulation is a price per quantity. So the quantity is going to explode and you can be playing with the price. And at the end of the day, also. Making a very good, um, a very good action for the planet for the people because this is an excellent solution to reach millions of consumers.
José: So the sooner we do this, the better for everybody.
Deanna: Yeah, no, I really appreciate your sharing that that pricing experiment really, because we've always suspected right that the cost of biotech ingredients was a main obstacle to industry adoption. Um, but I love what you're sharing it. And as you've suggested the biotech. Uh, suppliers in our industry each have their own specialty.
Deanna: So, um, so [00:37:00] there's definitely opportunity for others to follow the example that you've set here. That's so exciting to hear that it's working. I'm very glad to hear about that. I have to say Jose Pablo, this has been a very fascinating interview. I thank you for being part of the Cosmo factory podcast today.
José: No, thank you to you. We are proud to be, to have been invited to your show and, uh, have a nice day, very weak and better year for everybody, especially for you.
Deanna: Yes, take care. Thank you. [00:38:00]