COSMOFACTORY

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Deanna: Welcome to Cosmo Factory. A podcast by Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna, where we explore the entire cosmetics, personal care, and fragrance industry supply chain. I'm your host, Deanna Utruski. And here at Cosmo Factory, we look beyond the trends to discover the ideas, initiatives, and innovations that are truly advancing beauty.
Deanna: Let's get started.
Deanna: This episode focuses on packaging manufacturing. Including packaging materials, dispenser design, recyclability and reloadable packaging. Joining me today on the Cosmo Factory podcast are Delphine Boni, Marketing Manager, Beauty, EMEA at Aptar, and Xavier Sousterec, President at Aptar Beauty, EMEA. Welcome to you both.
Deanna: Thank you.
Xavier: Good morning, Janet.
Deanna: Good morning. So, just in case anyone listening is not familiar with Aptar, will you please introduce the company to [00:01:00] us?
Xavier: uh, or one of the leaders in a packaging industry for the uh, cosmetic and pharmaceutical industries in particular. Also some other areas, we cover a full spectrum of technologies.
Xavier: Uh, probably the, uh, the, uh, the, the supplier in that packaging industry having the widest, uh, portfolio, uh, traveling really, uh, really everything. And, um, um, yeah, we're a company of 3. 5 billion, uh, uh, dollars of, uh, turnover, um, roughly, uh, 14, 000 employees, um, around the world, many facilities. Very big. We're an American company on the stock exchange in New York.
Xavier: Um, but actually funny enough, a lot of Europeans and, uh, and I would not to say French people. Um, I think there is a big tradition of a French cosmetic, you know, uh, and, and European cosmetics in the, around the world and be the export business. So we have a large representation in Europe. It's one [00:02:00] of our key, uh, key regions, uh, in our business.
Deanna: Wonderful. Thank you for that. Very helpful. Um, and so I was saying before we started the podcast, I've never actually had the opportunity to visit a packaging production facility. I get to look at ingredients, companies and product manufacturing companies from time to time. But I'm wondering if I went into an Aptar facility today, what would I get to see?
Deanna: What does this packaging manufacturing look like maybe in terms of equipment or Sure. Yeah. What am I gonna see?
Xavier: I think you would love it. And by the way, you're welcome to visit one of our facilities in Europe or in the US. Um, it's fascinating. I joined uptown myself a bit more than three years ago. Um, and I was amazed to see the level of technology for me that I was in the cosmetic industry before I'm more in the raw material area.
Xavier: Um, and which is also a lot of technology and I thought packaging, you know, we have a pump and I realized that if you take a fragrance pump, for instance, it typically has something like 15 components. It is a [00:03:00] lot of technology in it. You want to have the same spread, the same, uh, the same quality, robustness of the product.
Xavier: It has to work under all conditions. It's very technical and, uh, and based on that, yeah, you have a lot of equipment. It's a, it's a complex. thing. And it's a market that is moving all the time. Uh, you know, technologies are changing. The demand in the market is changing. And since you have complex equipments, you have, you need equipments which are very versatile.
Xavier: You need to be able to switch from a product line to another one, uh, rapidly, uh, customers at special times. So it needs a lot of agility. And to be honest, that's what I love in this industry. It's very agile. It's very rapid. You need to move really fast. A light speed. And, um, no, it's a fascinating industry.
Xavier: So again, welcome. If you want to visit wonderful. No,
Deanna: it sounds exciting. Thank you. And you mentioned raw materials. I'm wondering if you can say a little bit about the packaging materials that Aptar works with.
Xavier: Yeah, we typically transform [00:04:00] plastics, metal, number of things. Um, the plastic industry, you know, sometimes we we believe plastic becomes like a bad word.
Xavier: It's not at all. Uh, it's actually a very good technology, very efficient, um, sometimes low weight, uh, actually not a lot of, uh, energy consumed to, uh, to transform plastic materials. compared to some other materials like glass or aluminum. Um, and, uh, and then we talked about, uh, recycling. So having products which are fully recyclable.
Xavier: And I'm sure we'll talk about sustainability today. But, um, we also used recycled materials, uh, in particular in the PCR technology, on polypropylene, on other things. So we talked about that. It's again, uh, a lot of move in the, in that direction. We're on monomaterials. All the new developments are typically recyclable, uh, recyclable.
Xavier: So that, that's the, uh, the trend. So, and then obviously metal, uh, in the prestige area in [00:05:00] particular is a lot of metal. Um, and that's all, that's all knowledge. That's all know how.
Deanna: Yeah. It's interesting. And you mentioned the mono material design. I know that that has been a bit of an evolution for packaging materials.
Deanna: If you're working in plastic, then you're taking the metal out. Are you doing the same on the other end? Are some pieces entirely metal now? No.
Xavier: Less so, less so. There are a few, yeah, maybe a few technology, but overall, I think it's moving, uh, rather towards, yeah, monomaterial and, uh, like, uh, poly ethylene of different kinds of densities.
Xavier: You have to play with the different kinds of plastics, but again, monomaterial products, like, uh, the future pump that we, we launched a while ago now, uh, having a great success with it. Um, and then removing like a metal spring in a, in a pump. And moving to, uh, to full plastic solutions and we're working on lots of things, uh, from lotion pumps to, uh, other technologies.
Xavier: Yeah. Yeah.
Deanna: It's so interesting to think about that transition too, because I, I know with some of [00:06:00] the components like the metal spring, the end consumer may never have seen that component, but it's a significant change in packaging design.
Xavier: Absolutely. And the purpose for us is to, uh, to, to have the same.
Xavier: Customer experience at the end, not to say a better one, ideally a better one. Yeah. Um, and changing to, uh, to fully, you know, recyclable solutions. Uh, but not having an impact. It's not, there is no compromise and especially I would say in the, the prestige area. But also in, in mass and mastige. Uh, the expectations are there.
Xavier: The consumers are very demanding. They won't accept a bad solution or a compromise. So we need to deliver the full quality. And I must say that's, that's our strength. Uh, so strength of Aptar is about robustness of, of technologies, quality. Um, we have a reputation there, uh, which, which we deserve. And yeah, that's what we do.
Xavier: You know, when we move to this new. Fully researchable solutions.
Deanna: Excellent. Excellent. And we've, we've already mentioned sustainability several times, but I know, um, speaking with suppliers across the [00:07:00] board that partnerships are very important in this transition to sustainability. Do you want to talk about some upstream or downstream partnerships that Aptar has in this space?
Delphine: Exactly. We did recently a partnership with Pinar, which is a French bottle supplier. We wanted to have a full pack, highly recyclable, combined to our future pump. So the idea here is really to have a PET bottle in bottle combined to a PE pump to have the same family of material. And to offer, uh, e commerce capable and, uh, recyclable airless, uh, full pack solution.
Deanna: Excellent. It's so interesting. You mentioned the e commerce aspect of it, because that has a lot to do with Is this the word ship ability
Delphine: could be
Deanna: because it has to survive the journey, right? And it's a different, it's a different process than shipping to retail.
Delphine: Yes, it is. But it means e commerce capable means to be a very robust, solid [00:08:00] product with no risk of leakage or breakage, uh, during transportation, during shipment as well.
Delphine: Uh, and for that, for instance, we have some tests, uh, like East Essex test, Amazon East Essex test. Uh, that's, um, our products. Pass a lot of our products now pass, uh, to ensure this e commerce capability.
Deanna: Excellent. No, thank you for explaining that. Um, so I personally have been covering the industry now for about 10 years, and I've seen packaging design change quite a lot, particularly to accommodate the recyclability and refill ability.
Deanna: And we've mentioned it briefly, but I wonder if you can tell me more about Aptar's role in that change in packaging industry.
Xavier: Yeah, maybe a few words, uh, on the, on our strategy. So as you said, sustainability at the end is, is at the core of our strategy at Aptar, and that includes all these aspects. So I mentioned recyclability before or using recycled materials, but it's also, you are right.
Xavier: Reliability, um, lots of solutions there in, uh, in all areas. [00:09:00] Um, there is, um, a, a, a push in industry sometimes, uh, if you talk about refillable solutions, it doesn't go that fast. I think some consumers are not used to that yet. You see some areas where it's, um, apparently moving a bit faster. I think of the, uh, the home care business.
Xavier: We also offer solutions for the home care business, uh, very good solutions and it seems to be moving a bit faster. Um, we see, you know, a percentage of consumers being very, very happy to, to refill, uh, their products. But. Okay. Not a lot yet. I think it will come. There is no doubt about that. Uh, but it's a, it's a change of, of habits, uh, for consumers and it always takes time.
Xavier: But we are ready. We're ready for that. We have all these, uh, these solutions. Uh, again, whether it's, uh, you know, uh, for, for, for skin care, uh, fragrance, uh, basically covering, uh,
Deanna: Excellent. Yeah. It's very interesting to think about that. You've created the packaging options, right? You've made the investment and it really is about waiting for the [00:10:00] consumer to catch up in some regards.
Deanna: And I like what you shared there about the home care space because I find With beauty. Sometimes beauty is the leading, um, you know what's leading change among consumer behavior. Um, sometimes I see it happening from the food industry into beauty. And here I think home care is an excellent example.
Deanna: There's quite a lot of refills in terms of spray cleansers or dish liquids or these sorts of things. And and eventually, right, it will migrate into consumers behavior in beauty.
Xavier: You're totally right. I think it's habits. It's, uh, I think, uh, Depending also on the age pyramid and the age of the population buying these fragrance products or skincare products.
Xavier: I think the younger population is determined to go there. The young people in these days, they talk about that. It's, uh, really close to their heart. They want to, uh, to be able to refill solutions. I think, uh, consumers above, I'm not sure, I'm not sure if I should say an age here, but consumers maybe above, above, [00:11:00] above 50 or 45, maybe less so.
Xavier: Uh, it is a change, no doubt. But it's coming. I think the new generations are going to drive that, which is good.
Deanna: Absolutely. Excellent. I'm wondering if we can talk a little bit about the distinction between refillable packaging and reloadable packaging or rechargeable packaging designs. Um, and maybe you can speak to some of Aptar's particularly, um, the reloadable designs that you've created.
Delphine: Yes, of course. So we have, uh, exactly, we have different products regarding a refillable. Uh, it's more for a fragrance. So it's, it really means to, uh, to refill an empty packaging, uh, with, uh, with some bulk. Uh, so we have, for example, a fragrance with a screwable neck. Yes. You know, yes. Scrubble, uh, spray pump, uh, like a essential screw, like a inion screw.
Delphine: Uh, and reloadable, uh, it means more when, you know, when you insert, um, a cartridge like a. Part of the product that contains already a formula inside and for that we have, for [00:12:00] instance, solutions in LS, uh, like, um, ceremony reload, like repeat, like Gaia. We have also solutions in lipsticks with a private refill.
Delphine: Uh, for instance, so we can, we can really offer both solutions.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. And the airless type solutions you're mentioning makes sense for particularly skincare products. I'm imagining.
Delphine: Exactly. It's perfect for skincare as it's really safe for the formula. There is no risk of formula contamination as there is no air inside.
Delphine: Uh, so perfect for skincare, but it could be also, uh, now For hair care, for instance, with the new trend of skinification of hair, could be for foundation. Why not? But, uh, yes, mainly skin care.
Deanna: Sure. And the lipstick design you mentioned I know is very particular because If I, if I buy a lipstick from another brand, it won't work in your packaging.
Deanna: Is that?
Delphine: Exactly. Help
Deanna: us think about that.
Delphine: Uh, we are really working on it actually. It's also a really a challenge for us for sure to [00:13:00] ensure, um, to have actually a security key, uh, to ensure that we can only use the reload with the mother pack from the brands. Of course it's a security for the brand that we can offer.
Delphine: And this is of course very important. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure.
Deanna: So interesting.
Xavier: Maybe to, to add to that, uh, I wish that at some point there will be a bit of premiumization as well because that's, you know, if you buy a, a, a pack just once and refill for many years, uh, take a lipstick, uh, I think it's an opportunity for the consumers then to buy a very nice pack, uh, something you're going to carry in your bag for, you know, for a certain time.
Xavier: Um, and then the refills are not very trusty and, uh, We can hopefully, you know, invest a bit more in a, in a very nice part, and I'm saying that because we're good at that. We have, uh, um, two major investments, uh, in, in, in uptime in Europe. I would like to mention, we, we made an acquisition, which is a close to and see it's a plan that is producing mainly a [00:14:00] lipstick today and a very, very good, nice technologies or nice products.
Xavier: The other one is a major investment that we made in the field of custom packaging. So I'm going to tell you about customization here. Um, custom packaging is. Clearly a trend. We invested two years ago, uh, something like 42 million euros in a new site in a greenfield site in, uh, in, um, Oh, you know, we had very small sites around.
Xavier: So we did that to also save CO2, you know, reduce the CO2 emissions, do lots of things, but also invest massively for the future, new equipments, new technologies, new ways, uh, for our customers. And, uh, we see a lot of interest because typically when you're the last one investing, you also have the last, you know, the, the latest technologies you can use to make very, very nice products.
Xavier: Um, and, uh, we see a lot of excitement, actually lots of, uh, our brands and customers are visiting us and, and starting, uh, New business in that area with us.
Deanna: [00:15:00] Interesting. That is interesting to think about. Yeah, more personalized design, right? Absolutely. Excellent. Let me think. I have a question here with I mentioned I get to chat with a lot of ingredient makers or contract manufacturers and recent years.
Deanna: I've seen these companies. Focusing, um, quite a lot on the importance of local or regional sourcing and more and more, um, local and regional production facilities. Um, and I'm wondering if there's a parallel situation in packaging.
Xavier: Um, there may be some, but I must say we don't, um, feel too much in Uptown.
Xavier: Why? Because we, we've always been regionalized. Uh, at the end, Uh, we produce, you know, regions of the world mainly for these regions. We are not one of these companies, uh, you know, shipping products by ships, uh, around the world for everything. Uh, some do that. We decided, and I just mentioned Oyuna as an example.
Xavier: It's a typical example. We said it's made in France. Uh, we support our customers, the big brands, and many of them are European brands. Um, locally with custom products. If you think of France, you know, [00:16:00] the country. I think the, uh, the trade balance of France in transmitted is in a range of 15 billion, a second contributor after, uh, the aircraft industry.
Xavier: So very big contribution. We need to be there. We need to be close to our customers. And we've always been, to be honest. So now we keep investing where we can serve our customers, we're close to them. Um, and yes, we have. Options. We have facilities in China. If we want to to import certain components, certain either for cost reasons or technology reason, we do some of that as well.
Xavier: No doubt. And we can do it anytime as customers want. Again, uh, we've always been close to our markets, close to our customers. So it's not changing for us in that sense. For others, it may be a different, uh, different move.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you've had that strategy all along. All the time. All the time.
Deanna: Absolutely. Excellent. A lot of the topics we've, um, spoken about so far, the refillable, recyclable, reloadable, even the storage. proximity and manufacturing can fall under the umbrella [00:17:00] of sustainability. There is some relevance there. I'm wondering if you can speak a little bit about Aptar's larger sustainability goals or the metrics you're looking at.
Xavier: Yeah, we have lots of things and, uh, maybe you can add to that. But, um, yeah, we, we have, uh, targets which are, which are clearly defined, whether it's about, uh, CO2 emissions, you know, a green energy, renewable energy, Um, everything. We, we, uh, cooperate, uh, a lot with, uh, Ellen MacArthur on, uh, you know, on, on, on plastics, on all the goals.
Xavier: Uh, also removing, uh, substances of concern, as we call them, like, uh, POM and, uh, and all the fluorinated, uh, products, uh, PFAS technologies and others, uh, staranage. Um, we've done the job to a great extent, uh, we're, we're getting there. Um, so, yeah, there are lots of, lots of targets there. We pursue these targets, and I must say, uh, if you look at the, the press, and, uh, you know the press, uh, you will see all the awards we get, all the recognition that, uh, [00:18:00] Uptown is enjoying in that field.
Xavier: Uh, in, uh, you know, in all, uh, all, all, all the magazines and, uh, different countries in the U S in Europe. Uh, so I think we are recognized for that and it's not a surprise because again, it's always been at the heart of our strategy. It's a central point for us. We, when we meet customers. It's typically the first point we talked about that.
Xavier: How do we cooperate? How do we move? How do we use PCR or chemically recycled resins or whatever? It's a constant move. And, um, yeah, we do it out there.
Deanna: Excellent. Did you have something to add to that?
Delphine: Well, it's exactly that. And, uh, regarding the products, I could say that, yes, we have solutions on the three are, uh, direction that, you know, recycle, reduce and reuse.
Delphine: And really, we have, uh, there are three pillars for us for sure in developing new innovations. Recycled of course, with a more recyclable solution. As Xavier said, [00:19:00] we try to remove all non-recyclable materials like POM, we try to have more mono al solutions that are easily recycled. Um, we incorporate also a PCR reduce, we try to have a lightweight products as well, uh, to remove, um, for instance, uh, the cap and to have more twist to lock technology, something like this.
Delphine: And, uh. And we use, as I said before, to have more refillable and reloadable solutions. Excellent.
Deanna: And we've mentioned that we're recording this episode here, um, at the Cosmo factory, uh, podcast booth right here at Cosmo pack. I'm wondering if you can tell me what you're showing on your stand here today.
Xavier: Lots of things. Maybe there's a lot of innovation, maybe as a quick introduction to that, a lot of innovation. We kept investing, uh, over the years. Uh, including, you know, in the COVID times when maybe some players decided to cut costs, we kept investment on innovation and it's paying off. At the end, uh, it's clear.
Xavier: Um, lots of new [00:20:00] solutions, as you said, and as we, we talked about, you know, more refillable sustainable solutions, but, um, a lot of also very good technological solution. It's a lot about, I talked about customer experience. I think that's what it is. And we have not just the standard innovation, what we do, what we invent every day.
Xavier: Uh, we bring totally new solutions. I think of our fusion, uh, full pack range that we're introducing here that we're, we're showing, uh, in Bologna. Um, we have a, like a full pack, really, uh, full solutions. Um, it can be about the, the turnkey solution that we offer, uh, what we call a beauty collection. So full solutions for our customers that can be, adapted.
Xavier: It can be about declaration. We have a strategy around declarations. We can adapt. We can be about service models. And I want to, to mention that because we always talk about differentiations through technology and products. It can be through services as well. And I think we're changing. Aptar is changing a lot.[00:21:00]
Xavier: Uh, we start to bring MTS, you know, or We actually call it ATO. Sometimes it's assembly to order. So you basically, uh, have a standard product which is available any time of the year. Uh, we have inventory. We can ship in three days. If you need to adapt the length of a deep tube, or you need to change something or add some decoration, Deep tube takes, uh, not, not that long, um, changing, uh, the declaration can be a week or 10 days, but it's very short lead times, uh, and a good service to our customers.
Xavier: It's part of it. So I think what we show here is not just products. It's also solutions. It's also, uh, services. Uh, and I think that's what is, uh, is a bit new in a sense. Well, insisting on, but Delphine can explain more on the technologies.
Delphine: No, exactly. We I think we really try to be innovative. I would say on all levels.
Delphine: Uh, for sure. Sustainability, as I said before, e commerce. Uh, but also, you know, to have [00:22:00] new gesture, new experience, new consumer experience while also So, um, being safe, you know, to have safe, safe, uh, solutions for the different formulas. Um, and this in all categories. So it's skincare, lipstick, fragrance, personal care.
Delphine: Um, so if we have a focus this year on Cosmoprof, uh, uh, I would say, uh, for instance, uh, we just develop, uh, on the future pump, uh, a new temper evidence that we didn't have before. This is a non detachable integrated temper evidence, so you cannot lose it in the nature. You know, that's. We'll never be recycled.
Delphine: Um, and it's really a demand, especially from the demos, the most ethical brands. So this is really a, we have a huge interest in this. We have new twist to lock aerosols. Um, one for spray Tina, one for foam and gel Ringo and one for gel Nora. We have also, uh, a new, uh, duo flash, uh, face stick, for [00:23:00] instance. Uh, we have a new dropper, which is called neo dropper, very clean, uh, dropper.
Delphine: Uh, and the, um, the dropper is not going really in contact. With a with a bug. So there is also no air inside. So you have at the same time the protection of the formula and a very precise and controlled dosage. And regarding the fragrance, I would say we have also the new private spray, which is also on the go solution.
Delphine: So we also try to adapt to, uh, uh, to the new lifestyle. I would say to have also a rubber solution and on the go, uh, so on all categories.
Deanna: Excellent. Wonderful. Thank you for that. Now, I'm wondering if there are questions you thought I was going to ask you that I have not asked you yet. What would you like to share?
Xavier: No, I think what you heard today is that Aptar is clearly investing for the future, investing for the customers. When we talk to our customers, the only question is, you know, how we can contribute to their success. That's what we do every day. And it's valid for all the platforms. We invest massively. [00:24:00] Um, we're looking at a new range of valves and aerosols.
Xavier: So it's not just. Pumps were really, we really have a very wide and a portfolio. Um, also in the, the valve business, uh, very competitive solutions. Nowadays, I talked about made to start. So shortly times products we can offer. I think that's what it is. And the rest of technologies, the robustness of products, I think that is, is well known for that.
Xavier: I think Bologna is really gaining traction. Um, and we see lots of solutions, not just in the prestige area, but also in the personal care business. Um, there is also a trend that we see consumers asking for, you know, value, value for money. Uh, they ask for, uh, good solutions, but great quality, but you know, uh, the right price as well.
Xavier: And I think that's also an area where we can offer a lot. And that's what we do in Bologna, in the personal care area in particular.
Deanna: Thank you. Now, if someone is not here at this show. How can they learn more about AppJar?
Xavier: They should contact us anytime. We're on [00:25:00] the, we have a good internet web page and should contact us.
Xavier: And happy to talk to them, talk to customers. They don't really know us, but anyone who wants to contact us, again, on our internet web page, they can contact us. They can do that easily, and we'd be glad to, um, to talk about Aptar, whoever it is, any stakeholders, anybody who wants to know more. Um, it's a, it's a very, it's a fascinating company, uh, lots of things.
Xavier: And, and by the way, especially if young people want to hear about us, young talents want to join us, they are very welcome as well. We always welcome talents. in all countries. Um, it's part of the job we do trying to attract the very best people. I think we succeed. Um, but again, it's, uh, it's, it's a continuous effort.
Xavier: So very happy to also meet, you know, young talents, people from out of university. We want to, uh, to meet with us.
Deanna: Excellent. Well, this was quite a good interview. Thank you, Delphine Xavier. I appreciate you joining me today on the Cosmo Factory [00:26:00] podcast.
Xavier: Thank you.
Deanna: Thank you so much for listening. If you find the Cosmo Factory podcast useful, please take a moment to leave us a five star review and share your thoughts so even more cosmetic industry professionals can discover the Cosmo Factory.
Deanna: I'm Deanna Utruski. Please join me again next Tuesday for a new episode of the Cosmo Factory podcast.